S03|17 - Parenting as a unified team with couples coach, Natalie Clay

 

Natalie Clay is a wife, mother and Certified Life Coach specializing in coaching couples. Her unique approach assumes inherent goodness in everyone she works with. This means there is no assigning blame, just a logical approach to help better love yourself and your spouse, with failsafe tools to get you there.

What we talk about:

• The common struggles that come up in partner relationships
• How typical marriage advice is not helpful, and what is instead
• How to navigate differences in parenting ideas and still feel united
• The importance of mistakes in parenting and modelling behaviour for our kids

Connect with Natalie
IG: @natalieclaycoaching
Podcast: Couples Coaching with Natalie Clay
Website: https://www.natalieclay.com/
Communications 101 Course: https://natalieclaycoaching.lpages.co/communication-101/

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I would be honored to be your coach and help you get the changes you want to see in your life. The tools that I talk about in my podcast and use in my coaching have completely turned around my life and my relationships with my children. I know what it takes and how to make it happen. You can use the links below to get more of my content and to learn what we do in my program By Design. I love helping women tap into their inner expert and build radical connection in their relationships with their children.

Link to membership: By Design
Find me on the ‘gram: The.Parenting.Coach
My website: coachcrystal.ca
Work with me 1:1 HERE

 

 

Episode Transcript

 

Crystal The Parenting Coach: Hey, I'm Crystal, a certified life coach and mom of four. In this podcast, we combine radical connection and positive parenting theories with the How-To Life Coaching Tools and Mindset Work to completely transform our relationship with our children.

Join me on my journey, unleash your inner parenting expert, and become the mother you've always wanted to be. Make sure you subscribe wherever you listen to your podcast and rate this podcast on Apple, and check out my transformative monthly membership for moms in the show notes. 

 

Natalie Clay’s background, what she does, and how she got started

Crystal The Parenting Coach: Hi and welcome to today's episode, Parenting as a unified team with couples coach, Natalie Clay. 

Natalie Clay is a wife, mother, and Certified Life Coach specializing in coaching couples. Her unique approach assumes inherent goodness in everyone she works with. This means there is no assigning blame, just a logical approach to help better love yourself and your spouse, with failsafe tools to get you there.

Hi Natalie. Thanks for being on the podcast today.

 

Natalie Clay: Thank you so much for having me.

 

Crystal The Parenting Coach: I am excited because I have been following Natalie for a while and listening to her podcast for a while, and I send it out to my clients all the time because I love how she explains things so simply and easily. 

So, I am thrilled to have her on the podcast today – especially, because we haven't really talked a lot about marriages and that kind of a relationship. We talk a lot about parenting and motherhood issues, but not this. 

So, first of all – for the people that don't know you here – will you share just a little bit about you, what you do, and then also a little bit about your journey… like what kind of got you to the space that you're in right now?

 

Natalie Clay: Yes. So, I work primarily with couples on their marriage relationship. So, I started coaching almost four years – no, sorry, it was four years ago. And I started off just coaching all sorts of different people on any subject, really, that they came to me with. 

And I just found that every time it was something to do with marriage, I just really loved it. And my mind just loves to think about that relationship, and it's a pretty complex dynamic because you're working with two individuals; and then oftentimes, also kids. 

And it just gets fairly complicated fairly quickly, which I think lends itself well to my ADHD brain; and I just kind of love putting that puzzle together. And I've also just found that, you know, that can be such a stressful relationship – unnecessarily, in a lot of ways. 

So, I love, love, love helping people just to help make that relationship a little less intense and less stressful because it just impacts us in so many different ways in our life.

 

Crystal The Parenting Coach: Yeah, it totally does. Did you find-- I know a lot of people kind of come to that conclusion or like, I really love this specific topic because it was something that you struggled with, or was it just something that you really felt resonated with you and you did a good job at coaching or understood it more or whatever?

 

Natalie Clay: Yeah, great question. So, definitely both. You know, I've been married for almost 16 years now – and for sure, I mean, we have some great times and some rocky times still; you know, that's how it always goes. 

But I loved this coaching approach because it really took the blame out of it where I found that anything else that I was researching when it came to improving your marriage came down to, you know, who's being selfish? 

'Selfish' is the number one word that comes up when we're trying to improve our relationship, but it doesn't really work when you're struggling and your thought is, 'Okay, I'm really struggling and I just need to be less selfish'. 

Okay. So, it compounds things; and really, it's not coming down to selfishness. It's coming down to we all have individual needs and struggles and ideas about this relationship. And so, when we really understand it that way, then we don't have to decide that either one of you has a character flaw. 

It can just be two individuals doing the best that they can without any prior training or information going into this relationship. So, I think to answer your question in a roundabout way, both – it's definitely, definitely helped my marriage in that we, for sure, still have conflicts, but it makes the conflicts much less intense; and it's sort of a guidepost for how we get through struggle. 

And then, also, my mind just does love that relationship. It just, I don't know why-- I don't know what it is about it, it's just I never get bored of it; I'm always thinking about relationship dynamics, and I never get sick of talking about it. It's just, I definitely feel like it's my passion.

 

Crystal The Parenting Coach: Oh, I feel the same way that you do. I feel like when I started coaching on parenting and then I would coach about other things – of, you know, marriage and weight loss or business or whatever – I would just always circle back to parenting because I just loved being able to help moms feel better about themselves and then see how that played out in the parent-child relationship just so, so naturally and easily. 

And every time-- Every time I do it, I'm just like, 'I love this so much.' And I agree with what you said. I remember reading-- I just read a lot. I did a-- I did an undergrad in Psychology and ever since then I've been like just an avid reader of all-things self-help and psychology-related. 

And so, anytime that I would read about marriage, I always just like felt a little bit off about it. I was just like, I don't know, like, I don't know if this is exactly it. And it was actually an evening, like a free relationship seminar that somebody had invited me to by someone who was certified at The Life Coach School, that I was just like, 'Oh wait, this is different – like, this is new.' 

And she was just like, 'Oh, well, have you ever heard of like Brooke Castillo?' And I was like, 'No, I don't know who you're talking about?' Anyways, within a week I had signed up with to The Life Coach School because I had been currently looking for a Master's program in Marriage and Family Therapy. 

But, like you said, it was just, there's just something a little bit different. Like, it just wasn't totally helpful in the way that I wanted it to be. So anyways, yes, that's a little bit about my story. I just--  

 

Natalie Clay: I love it. 

 

The common struggles that come up in partner relationships

Crystal The Parenting Coach: I agree with that entirely. So, now that you've coached so many couples for a long time, what are some things that you have noticed keep people really disconnected, or stuck in lack of communication or conflict that kind of come up over and over again for your clients?

 

Natalie Clay: Yeah, so, we tend-- Especially in the marriage relationship, we tend to get really stuck in some patterns based on beliefs that we form fairly early-on. And then, we keep repeating patterns because we're looking to prove those beliefs true. 

So, for example, we'll make an assessment about ourself – maybe we've decided this since we were a child, we've been told something and we think this thing about ourself. Or we notice something in our spouse like, Oh, they're just not very [fill in the blank].' 

And as soon as we have a thought like that or our dynamic is just not great in this way-- And sometimes it's subconscious, we're not necessarily thinking, 'What is my belief about my partner?' But as soon as we start forming beliefs where it's just human nature, we want to understand each other, then we view things through that lens; and we keep creating it over and over and over. 

So, it's not that that's not there at all, it might exist – but we keep ourselves pretty stuck when, all of a sudden, we've identified something that we feel like is off and then we are trying to solve for it. 

So, for example, if it's my – one thing I hear a ton – 'My wife just doesn't make me a priority when it comes to time'. And if that's the case in their mind, then they're going to be noticing any situation where they can fit the circumstances into that belief. 

Whereas the wife might make him a priority in a moment and he'll think, 'Yeah, well, this is one time,' or he won't even notice it as challenging that belief. 

 

Crystal The Parenting Coach: Yes. 

 

Natalie Clay: And then when he's in a less great place or whatever and he is lonely one night or something and she's gone, he'll be like, 'Yep, here we go, this is it.' So, then it's trying to solve that. It's trying to say, "Okay, you need to make me a priority, or what's the alternative?" "Well, why don't you just decide to be more independent?"

So, instead of looking at it like somebody's doing something wrong, either he shouldn't want that or she should be different; I think, obviously, we're not getting into how to address that quite yet, but that's the problem we get into is we don't tend to look at it that way because that's not traditionally how we solve situations in marriage. 

It's, 'Okay, you need to be better at making him a priority', or 'You need to be more understanding about her need to get out,' and that really doesn't work. And so, it goes back to those beliefs. It also a huge problem for all of us is we try to talk when we're upset; and even with our kids, we don't tell them, like when they're really upset, we say, "Take a minute and take a little time out." Right? 

 

Crystal The Parenting Coach: Yeah.

 

Natalie Clay: "And then, we'll talk about it later; and let's talk through it and understand it." But we don't do that as adults. And so, everyone says, "Oh, we're terrible at communicating." I'm like, 'Yes, you are – all of us are, when we're really upset.' 

But if you take a minute, you're actually really good at communicating when you're not activated or fired up. So, it's communicating at the right time, and it's also the expectations that we bring with us into marriage of who we think we should be – we think they should be, what we think the nature of this relationship should be based on a ton of different factors. And all those three things make our experience much, much less enjoyable.

 

Crystal The Parenting Coach: Yeah. I think that those are three things that I see often as well, even when it comes to parenting. Because like you said, it's not like we consciously are like, 'I'm going to try to go through the day and point out all of the things that my partner's doing wrong or that my kid's doing wrong.'

But if our story in our brain is, I have this story about one of my kids that was like, he never listens, like ever. And so, my brain was just amplifying all the times he never listened. And I was like, 'See, he never listens.' 

And so, for a week, I just did this experiment and I was like, 'I'm just going to notice like all of the times he listens, and all of the times that I noticed good behavior in him.' And throughout the week, I like blew my own mind because I was like, 'Wait, he actually listens a lot?' And I had not had that story about him at all. 

 

How typical marriage advice is not helpful, and what is instead

Crystal The Parenting Coach: And so, you know, in the marriage dynamic, how strong this would be if we have these ideas or these, you know, thought patterns about our partners, and we don't question those. We're just like, 'Yep, that's true, they always do that.' 

And like you said, the parenting or the marriage advice is often like, 'Okay, let's see how I can help this other person feel better,' which doesn't change our belief necessarily. They could go about and do the whole list of things that you've asked them to do, and it might not make a difference at all.

 

Natalie Clay: Yes. And I definitely find that we fall into patterns really quickly, which is, you know, after we've experienced that, then we've decided one person is the way--  

It's almost like a parent-child dynamic where somebody's always in trouble, and the other person's always upset – not always, but when we get into any sort of conflict, we both take those on, where really both of those are coming from fear. 

The person that says, "Oh, I'm so sorry," and they go into shame, that's fear. That's saying, you know, 'Lay down and play dead basically, and then they'll stop trying to harm you or whatever.' And the other side of that is, you know, they're also in fear saying, 'I'm really upset about this,' thinking if they don't express their dissatisfaction that it's never going to change. 

So, both of those are pretty fear-based. But if we take a minute to go back to the middle, it's, 'Okay, I'm not happy about something, and let's discuss it, then--' Anyway, we can get into the how to solve these things later. But it's going to be a much kinder conversation.

 

Crystal The Parenting Coach: Yeah. And I think what you said about emotional reactivity is so common as well, because we do that with our kids. We're like, 'You know what, you're really upset, let's circle back and talk about this later.' And just the other day, I had this Instagram post where it was like, 'Go to bed angry, you’ll feel better in the morning and you can talk about it later.' 

It was actually a quote from the podcast interview that I did with Jody. And also, if you're listening and you don't know, Jody and Natalie are sisters, so that's why this makes sense. Anyway, so I was--  

There was a lot of pushback on that one. A few people were like, 'No, no, no, you have to talk it out.' And I was like, 'Well, you know, talking it out in the moment when you're really frustrated isn't a good idea.' 

And they're like, 'But you have to like-- You have to get--' You can tell that they were just so resistant to this idea of like, let's just circle back. Like I'm in a training through Brené Brown right now, and she calls it "circling back". 

And she's like, 'In any conversation when you're feeling that intense emotion, just say, "We're having a hard time – let's circle back in a few hours, and we'll be able to choose our thoughts a little bit better." 

But I think it's so. It's just so basic of us. Like it's our go-to, I guess, to just want to like solve it. Our brain is like, 'No, we have to figure this out right now.' Like, I remember being in situations with my husband where I was like, 'No, we need to talk about it because my brain really wanted to figure it out.' 

But once I went and like cooled down and calmed down – lots of the time, it wasn't even a problem. Like it was really just me feeling frustrated. So, I think that is a great piece of advice also is just like, cool yourself down just like you would give your toddler like a break. Right? Like, let's not try to make her feel better right now. Let's just let her chill and just have her little freak out and then--

 

Natalie Clay: Give ourselves a timeout, really.

 

Crystal The Parenting Coach: Yeah. It really is. I tell that to people all the time, I'm like, 'Don't give your kids a timeout – give yourself a timeout, you'll feel better.'

 

Natalie Clay: So true. And it's so interesting because we tend to choose people who are really different from us in some key ways. So, I find that most often there is someone that is really uncomfortable with the conflict, so they do want to talk about it right away. 

Whereas then, someone in that situation may end up choosing somebody who needs that time to process and their brain doesn't just formulate the language for it right away. And so, to say, "We have to talk about it now so that I don't have to be worried that there's conflict in our relationship," it's like, 'Yeah, that sounds great, but this person really can't, it's not beneficial'. 

And so, we have to wait and they don't like that. They're like-- It's their way every time. I'm like, yep. Because they need the time to process, so you have to be patient. That's something you can choose and do. Whereas they can't just, all of a sudden, formulate their thoughts that way. So, we have to wait.

 

Crystal The Parenting Coach: Well, 100%, you just described my husband and I. He's like, takes him so much longer to like sit and process and think about things. And I sometimes think he's just like done talking because he'll like be pausing and thinking for so long. 

And I'm just like a 'go, go go', like thinking about things, talking about things right away. So, it has been a big shift for me to do that. Another thing I noticed when coaching within parenting that comes up sometimes in marriages is being defensive. So, like them saying something and then us getting so defensive about it, like that seems to be kind of a common problem. 

And so, this comes up in parenting issues within marriage. So, for instance, you know, if one partner wants to parent one way and another wants to do it another way, and then that partner maybe says something about it like, 'Oh, well, I don't think this is working,' or whatever, it just brings up this whole ball of like, I think really what is below it is the insecurity of how they're doing it anyways.

 

 Natalie Clay: Absolutely. 

 

How to navigate differences in parenting ideas and still feel united

Crystal The Parenting Coach: But I would love to talk about that a little bit more. Not just the defensiveness but also just like conflict when deciding how to come together and parenting kind of united, when you have such different approaches to parenting.

 

Natalie Clay: Yeah. So, a quick way to notice that happening that I use with people is any time that you feel the need to criticize them or you're criticizing yourself, you're looking for justification to feel what you're feeling, really. 

Like if you're trying to change that and you're wanting that approval, you know, it all goes back to that; really, it's just our brain – its only function, really, is to keep us alive. And if you use everything in terms of, is this person a friend or foe? And even our spouse, especially our spouse who knows us really well. 

So, if we feel like we're being criticized, that's a chance for us to check in and like, 'Okay, maybe they don't like my approach and, why have I decided that's a problem?' Or why am I-- You know, that might be a criticism, but if I can decide I like my approach, I don't have to convince them and I don't have to shame myself. 

So, it's that whole, you know, shame always turns to blame, always. So, anytime somebody's criticizing you, it helps to know that's coming from some sort of shame. Like again, they're on that side of, 'I'm going to show that I'm right, and I have to be more dominant.' 

Whereas the other side of that spectrum is, you know, takes it on as the person who feels more like the victim. But again, those are both fear-based positions. So, it's okay, we can have differing opinions and both can be great. 

There doesn't have to be one or the other. So, we don't have to fall into those roles of villain victim – instead it's just, yeah, how can I check back in with myself? Because that is, like you said, that is always the core of it – is you are not getting your own back, essentially. 

And it's tricky because in parenting or in marriage or in most things in life, we don't know for sure, but we have to allow for that as well. And no, yeah – I might change my mind. I might decide later, 'Oh that's, I like their way better.' But if we feel really compelled in a moment to do it a particular way, there's a good reason for it. 

And also, to just keep in mind that when things feel a little emotional or heated, it's because we both care about these kids. So, we are aligned on the most important thing – so, of course, we're going to have strong opinions about it, but it goes back to, 'Are they saying I'm not a good parent or that I'm…' whatever it is, right? 

So, it's our whole identity; and instead, it's just, 'Okay, they feel really strongly about it and I feel strongly about it,' which instantly, if it's opposing, makes us feel challenged. 

Whereas if we just decide, 'Okay, if we know we're on the same team, then two heads are better than one if we're not looking for one solution, because our kids are really different – so it's actually really great that we have different ideas, different approaches, but it's okay.' 

Different things are going to work at different times, and work – because, obviously, we could define what does it mean for it to even work. Sorry, my mind's going all over the place because there's so many different ways we could take this. 

But ultimately, you have to decide, 'If I like my way, that's great.' You want to really stay there, and you can let them like their way also. And again, when we can discuss it when we're not heated, that's going to be the best way we can likely create a solution here that's going to be better than we would've come up with as individuals.

 

Crystal The Parenting Coach: Totally. I recognize this basic human thought that I have all of the time, and I think a lot of my clients do too, of like, 'I'm right and you're wrong in this situation.' Right? My way is the only right way, and that there only is one right way. 

I think that I feel this often; and so, when I've learned so much about parenting and studied so much and researched so much, and I'm like, 'Okay, this is the best way,' then it's hard for me in that situation if my husband's maybe parenting in a different way for me to be like, oh, but this really is the best way. 

But what I've noticed is when I can let that down and just be like, 'There doesn't have to be one right way.' Like, we both-- Like what you said, we both love our kids, which is the only most important thing – like, that's all that matters. 

And so, he might show it in a different way. He might show up in a different way as a parent than I am going to, and that's not a problem; and it's okay, I can just-- I can keep doing it my way and he can keep doing it his way, and that can be united front. Right? 

We don't have to respond like, who's going to respond to the same situation with the exact same way? I don't even think that's the best way to do it. Like you said, I think we all have strengths and weaknesses; and our kids are different and we're different, and it's great that we do it in a different way.

 

Natalie Clay: Yes. And it allows us to be individuals also. Because when you come up with the way that feels best to you, it's based on who you are as a person where you like, conflict-avoidance. You know, there's all these different values that you're bringing into every situation; and likely, your values are going to line up, but they might be ranked slightly differently in each situation.

Whereas you might value, again, conflict-avoidance – your husband is going to have something else where, yeah, he values that as well, but also there's going to be something else there. 

So, instead of like, 'No, this is the best way,' that likely is the best way if you were in that situation and you were trying to resolve it, but his way really is the best for him; and then your child's going to be totally different also. Yeah. It's just, okay, we don't have to get it right because 'right' is very subjective, but it's just, what feels like love to all of us is a good way to approach it.

 

Crystal The Parenting Coach: I love that, 'What feels like love to all of us'. And I think that works within how you're responding to your partner and then also how you're responding to your kids.

 

Natalie Clay: And to yourself. For sure, to yourself.

 

Crystal The Parenting Coach: Yes. Yes. For sure, to yourself. And I think it's easier to do when you respond to yourself with love as well.

 

Natalie Clay: Yes.

 

Tips on how to parent as a unified team

Crystal The Parenting Coach: So, what are some, kind of, actionable tips? I usually ask people for like one tip at the end, but I'd love for you to give us more than one, if you have more than one – some solutions to people that maybe are struggling with their marriage, just with any conflict in their marriage or maybe struggling with kind of being united in parenting in different ways.

 

Natalie Clay: Yeah. So, I think we tend to look at it as Estella does a really good job describing this. She says, "You know, people come in and it's like, they have the box of exactly how the thing is supposed to work, and they bring it into the shop and they're like, here, fix it – it's not working, like it's set on the box.' 

And as I just love that mental description of it. But what I do with people is I say, okay, instead of looking at it like, 'Here's what we thought it should be –here's how people should co-parent, and you know, here's what a household should be like.' 

And, of course, we both have our own ideas about that and then we start noticing different things that we think aren't great. Like, 'Oh yeah, things are good but our marriage isn't so great here.' 

Or, 'Here's where we really struggle,' and that feels really productive because we think we're being really-- You know, we're really focusing on things that aren't working so that we can make improvements. 

But it really does the opposite because then we're just looking for more of that. Where I like to kind of flip-flop that and say, 'Okay, what is working?' Really truly, we are aligned on the most important things. Everything else really is extra. 

Like if we both love our kids and we both love each other – and want each other to be safe and happy, that's really all that's required to make things work relatively smoothly. It's just then we have to let go of all of the Hows and just start from that place of like, 'Okay, no, we have a really great marriage.' 

And we're really great co-parents because there's lots of learning that takes place through the figuring it out process where it shouldn't be perfect, it shouldn't be seamless, it shouldn't-- It's not that there should never be contention or no one should ever be unhappy with the results of things. 

I always think it's interesting where we give our kids lots of chances to be unhappy. We're like, 'I know you don't want to go to dance, but you signed up so you've got to go.' Or, 'I know that's not fun,' and it's almost like this point of pride like we're being good parents because we're enforcing this, but when it comes to us, we totally forget that. 

We think, 'I'm struggling in this area, and I shouldn't be.' So, you need to be different or this needs to be different, and I should have everything I want right now. 

So, that even just recognizing like we are aligned in the most important ways and if I chose to believe that we are a really great team that does want the same most important thing, then how would I view this situation? Oh yeah. We just have a different approach and that's okay, what do we do with that?

 

The importance of mistakes in parenting and modelling behavior for our kids

Crystal The Parenting Coach: Yeah. I love that. I love focusing on what is good because I do think it sometimes feels productive in our brain to be like, 'Let's figure out all the things that are going wrong, and then we'll see if we can solve them,' when a lot of those problems will just dissolve if we're like, let's instead focus on whatever's going really well and whatever we have that's in common. 

And, like you said, when we go back to like that love, then all of the other problems become a lot easier to deal with, and some of them just go away. Like sometimes, it's like not even an issue anymore. I don't think, yeah, like what you said, 'We don't have to do it the same way' – and also, that it's okay to struggle. 

Like we're not here to just have fun and be happy all the time, then no learning or growth would happen from that. I love that.

 

Natalie Clay: And also, it's pretty miserable-- If you get yourself to a point where you're not struggling, you're pretty depressed. And I'm not even joking about that, but that's where you're to the point of sort of resignation, right? I think of resignation as a step beyond anger or disappointment is resignation. 

And so, we're just mildly depressed where, you know, if we are actively involved in our life and our relationships and whatever it is we're pursuing, we're going to have some really disappointing times – and some, what we might consider to be failures. 

But I think that's so important when we're raising our kids, because it's interesting-- Sometimes I'll work with people who say, you know, things feel like a big struggle because they grew up in a household where there really wasn't contention. Like they'll say, "Oh, my parents never fought in front of us, or they just-- They got along so well and they were able to maintain this really peaceful environment where they really supported the kids so well." 

But then, now, what that does is I'm like, 'They gave you this gift of this amazing childhood and now you're, kind of, host as an adult because now you are, they're thinking, 'What's wrong with me that I'm struggling with my spouse? What's wrong with me that I'm losing my temper with my kids?' 

And so, I think bottom line, our kids are going to grow up and have thought drama; they just are. They're going to internalize it and have some shame in one way or another because that's what we do as humans. So, we need to not worry about that so much. 

But instead, what is the thing that kids most need to learn? It's, they need us to model how to be imperfect humans and what to do next because, for sure, they're going to grow up and be imperfect as well. 

And so, that means, I always think of it as, 'Okay, what do I want to show my kids?' I want to show them that I'm going to make lots of mistakes. Now, how do I own that mistake? How do I apologize to them and say, 'Oh by the way, I'm so sorry I lost it there, and that has nothing to do with you.'

I want them to learn that their feelings about it are totally valid. I want them to know that it's never anything to do with them, what I'm going through. And that I still love myself even when I make mistakes because I really want them to do that so I don't shame myself. Like, 'Ugh, I'm so sorry, I was so tired, I just lost it yesterday.' 

But I don't have to say I'm the worst mom or he's the worst dad because the other really important thing we can show them is we can disagree with people in the world and we don't have to hate them because it's not a challenge to us. And I mean, clearly, we need more of that lesson in the world right now.

 

Crystal The Parenting Coach: Yes, definitely. Yeah. I love that. I think that I often tell people that imperfection is actually a gift that you give to your kids because like what you said, we're modeling to them how to handle it. 

If we, every time you make a mistake, just pretend that it didn't happen or dwell in shame forever, then we're not really helping them to model it and to learn how to handle it in a healthy way. 

But if we can own that mistake and be like, 'I'm really sorry I totally just did this yesterday.' Like I laughed or something at my child when he said something that I obviously thought was ridiculous and then I was just like, 'Oh no, wait, no – that was not an appropriate response to what you just said – I am totally ready to listen now – sorry about that – like, let's do it again.' 

And he just said what he said again, even though he kind of laughed, I think he laughs at all of my little life coaching things; and we had a great conversation and I said, "Okay, tell me more about that." 

But in that moment, I was thinking this really is like, it's such a better way to communicate. Like that's healthy communication is when I can take responsibility for my actions and reactions – and even when I don't handle them well, which all of us will, like what you said, "It doesn't matter how amazing our childhood is, we're going to have something to deal with when we're adults."

 

Natalie Clay: Our kids are going to be like, 'I can't stop thinking about my thoughts and my feelings because I was raised by this life coach or whatever.' 

 

Crystal The Parenting Coach: Exactly. 

 

Natalie Clay: We're going to-- We're going to give them those things no matter what. Yeah, but I just-- It's such a good opportunity to, because our kids-- If we don't do that and we're just constantly telling them, 'You need to be kind, you can't hit your sibling or whatever, that is not nice,' and we put them in timeout and they see us losing our temper and maybe yelling about something and then they don't see us taking any responsibility for it - kids pick up on that hypocrisy, and it's very uncomfortable for them. 

So, instead, it's just, 'Yeah, we're all in this together – we're not trying to be perfect, we're never going to be perfect.' 'And so, instead, yeah, we're going to keep trying for this because I'm going to let you know, I think that's the way to function in the world where you're going to be the happiest and you're going to make those decisions though obviously yourself.' 

'So, there are going to be consequences, but I'm just going to let you know that I'm also going to apologize and show you what to do when I don't act in the way that I'm also teaching you, because I'm not perfect either. But again, it's okay, we're not trying to be perfect, and I just think that's so relieving.'

 

Crystal The Parenting Coach: It is because it's that hypocrisy, right? Like if we grow up always feeling like, you know, they're perfect all of the time or we have to be perfect or whatever, there's just this really uncomfortable dynamic. 

But if we see them say like, 'It's okay, I'm not perfect, I have a human brain – you do also, sometimes I lose it just like sometimes you lose it.' I remember my mom-- My mom's a counselor and I've several life coaching therapists in the family. 

Anyway, so my mom sits down with my son because he was really upset and she said, "Did you know that like even as a grandma, that I feel like anger inside and like I feel that like hitty, yelly, screamy?" And he just like laughed. He was like, 'What? You do?'

 

Natalie Clay: That's so good.

 

Crystal The Parenting Coach: And I was like, we need to have those conversations more because I don't think he ever realized like, I think he thought, well, eventually, we'll move out of this. 

But instead, just realizing like, 'This is the norm, this is what our brain does. It's totally fine that your brain is doing this too. Now, let's like just move through life and use the tools that we have.' And like you said, I'm sure my kids are going to be like, 'I'm never using life coaching tools, I've had to use them my whole life.'

 

Natalie Clay: Like, 'We need to stop thinking about that for one second – you guys are just only thinking about yourselves.'

 

Crystal The Parenting Coach: As soon as I turn a podcast episode on about something to do with self-help, my kids are like, 'Oh, did we have to listen to this in the van?'

 

Natalie Clay: For sure, for sure. But you know what I think is really interesting about that too, though, is as soon as we switch it around to that, and this applies in marriage and with our kids is, you know, we'll say like, 'This person--' 

It's just interesting to me to see, especially in marriage, how we go from, 'Oh this is the person I love, that I want to spend forever with' – to 'This person's gaslighting me or something'. Like, you can get really extremely, my biggest predator, all of a sudden. 

But that happens because we make everything mean something about us. And we'll say that about kids a lot, but as adults we do that as well. And it's not because we're all self-centered, it's because our brain, in a way, wants it to be about us – or it's the most efficient way to solve for the potential threat because if it's about us, then there's something we can do. 

We have some control over this situation. If they're upset because I am just not a kind, considerate person – okay, then I just have to be more considerate. Obviously, there's problems with that, but that's where our brain goes. 

So, even just by saying that to our spouse or our kids, like, Hey, I'm just having a bad day. You know what? I'm really sorry I snapped or, you know, whatever.' Then it tells them it's safe for them to be supportive because we're saying, "It's not you, it's me; and we love supporting each other, we really do." But if there's any part of us that's thinking, 'Oh maybe it's me, and they're blaming me," we are going to put some space between the two of us because we can't-- The analogy I use is, 'We can't hug a porcupine', right? 

They're like, I want you to come, and just when I'm going through those hard times-- I hear this a lot in marriage, 'I'm going through a hard time, I just need them to be loving and supportive because I'm really struggling.' I'm like, 'Yeah, but they're thinking that you're angry at them.' 

That's a big ask, to say, "I'm shooting daggers at you, and can you come in closer and hug me?" Like, no. But I say, if you can take some ownership, which does require some courage and vulnerability to say, I'm so sorry I'm having a really bad day, can I just hug you?" People love to offer that support. 

So, it's just that little thing. And I've noticed with my kids too, like when I will take some ownership, and it's not always in the moment. Sometimes it's the next day I'm like, 'You guys, I'm having a rough week, I'm so sorry.' 

And they're like, 'It's okay mom.' Because instantly, when I'm taking responsibility for it, it says, 'It's not you' – and I'll be really clear with them on that. Then they want to love and support because it also says, Hey, it's not just, they're always right and I'm always wrong.' 

It adds to this pretty amazing dynamic in our household where we all can have that opportunity to be the ones that sometimes need support and sometimes are able to support. 

And we all want to be in the position where we're able to support, it feels a lot better – but it frees everyone up to do that rather than this just uncomfortable feeling of like, are they mad at me? 

And then, they're sad and then-- That gets really confusing for kids really quickly and they think it's my fault, but also it feels like injustice because I feel like they're being mean. So, should I be feeling bad for them? That's really confusing. 

Where instead it's like, 'Oh, they're having a bad day. They're acting out just like I do. It's okay. They'll take care of themselves, that way, that has nothing to do with me. I can give them a hug or I can--'  

My kids will write cute little notes and stuff, and we don't want to rely on them to make us feel better, obviously. That's too much to put on a child, but it does just naturally add to this environment of this is a place where you can be imperfect; and we don't have to like what each other's doing, we don't even have to like everything about one another – but that's what love is. 

It's, I can love you and not like everything you do in every moment, and I can have bad moments and we can be here the best we can; and it's going to look messy, but that's amazing. That's a safe household, in my opinion.

 

Crystal The Parenting Coach: Yes. That's like, that's a home, right? Where we can all have those days where we're having bad days and we can support each other, or we can also have a bad day at the same time and just be like, 'Okay, you know, we're going to circle back to this tomorrow.' 

And for everybody just to release that pressure of like, 'I'm the one making you feel this way, and now you made me mad, and I made you mad and you're mad at--' 

You know, like, there's just so much drama that puts our brain in that emotional reactive space. Like, all the time, we're like constantly this state of alarm instead of being like, 'It's okay, it's totally normal for us all to have bad days.'

 

Natalie Clay: Because if somebody's acting defensive, that only comes from feeling like they're being attacked where we're like, 'It's not about you, I'm just having a bad day.' And you're like, right. But you got to say that because otherwise, we do 10 times take we do often take things out on each other, it's just human nature. So, to just clear the air and take ownership for it is so important, so important.

 

Crystal The Parenting Coach: Yeah. I love that. And I love the verbalizing it, like being clear about that instead of just like, 'They probably already know that it's not about them.' Right?

 

Natalie Clay: Yes.

 

Crystal The Parenting Coach: No, they might not know.

 

Natalie Clay: Well, because we're so caught up in our own drama of like, 'We've had the worst day, we've had this.' And then we're looking for our evidence to add to that; and then, all of a sudden, our spouse is not even there for us. 

They're being really quiet. We're like, yeah, because they're thinking that they're the problem for you or that you're thinking they're the problem. So, one thing too I have to add to that is, you know especially in marriage, I find that we tend to think that if there's something we don't like about one another or in our dynamic, that we have to work on it; and I totally disagree with that. 

I like to compare this to our children. I'm like, 'Think about your kids. Are there some things about their personality that isn't your favorite? Some things they say or do or like.' 

And you don't really like that, and you're okay with that because we've decided, 'It's okay, we don't have to like every single thing that our kids do because we've all agreed as parents like, yeah, that's really hard or that's annoying or we don't like that.' 

And so, that doesn't challenge our identity. But we have to also apply that to our marriage relationship, which there are going to be things about each other that you may never like and that is okay. And instead, it doesn't have to be right or wrong, you don't have to feel bad about that and you don't have to try to change them. It's just, 'Yeah, we do not agree on this, and that's totally fine.'

 

Crystal The Parenting Coach: Yeah. We don't have to focus on that or have it be a big deal. We can just be like, 'It's fine – we're different people, we're going to have different opinions on things and that's okay.'

 

Natalie Clay: And, it's fun, like when you can finally get to that point. My husband and I have things like that, where I'll just own my position and he owns his; and that feels good. It allows us to have that autonomy and be our own person, which feels really, really important. 

And then, I'll say like, oh my way is so much better, and he thinks his way is so much better. And it can just be a lighthearted thing of like, 'Oh yeah, that way is far inferior,' but we'll just make jokes about it. But it's a way of, like, allowing us to be us.

 

Crystal The Parenting Coach: Yeah. And, who doesn't want that? Like I think that's such a good ending for this conversation is to just remember like, we each get to be our own selves and what a great marriage relationship, if you give the other person the ability to just be themselves.

 

Natalie Clay: Yeah. We'll be the happiest when-- You'll be the happiest when you're the 'you-est you you can be'. And yes, we always want to work on these things of like, 'Do I need more patience? Do I need more whatever.' 

But we cannot decide that for another person. We can only be doing that work on ourselves. And anything that is, you know, feels challenging from the other side is work you need to do. Anything you're not happy with is work you need to do.

 

How to connect with Natalie Clay

Crystal The Parenting Coach: So good. I love that. So many great little quotes from this episode. I love it. Okay, so before we end, can you tell our listeners how they can connect with you? And we'll have this posted in the show notes as well.

 

Natalie Clay: Yes. Great. So, I have a Communications Course that it just helps you because I find that that tends to be the main thing that people come to me saying that they're struggling with. So, I do offer a course for anybody. 

It's really inexpensive, but it's just, you know, Communication 101, just the basics on why communication is challenging and how to have a roadmap for how to communicate really quickly. So, you can take that course, you can find that through my website, natalieclay.com. 

I also have a free podcast that you mentioned; it's Couples Coaching with Natalie Clay. There's lots of different things on there. I also do have a lot of episodes where I'm coaching couples, if you want to hear the approach and just hear how different it is from counseling. 

And then I also have a weekly email that you can sign up for, it's called Thrive. And I'll just send you tips each week to, just something to work on. You know, we talk about the work of marriage, that we have to do the work… like, what even is the work? 

So, it's just something little and more positive than, 'Oh, I need to be less this,' instead it's, I try to make it something positive that you can focus on to help find a little bit of relief and keep your relationship heading in a positive direction.

 

Crystal The Parenting Coach: I love that. Thank you, Natalie. Thanks so much for being here today.

 

Natalie Clay: Yeah, thanks so much. It was so fun to talk to you. Good luck with everything.

Crystal The Parenting Coach: I hope you enjoyed today's episode. Make sure that you give it Five Stars on Apple, and check out my monthly membership for moms in the show notes.