The Parenting Coach Podcast with Crystal

S03|18 - Recovering from Perfectionism with Monica Packer

Dec 27, 2021

Monica is a recovering perfectionist, mama of 4 young children, lover of creativity, habits, and personal growth. She is the host of the About Progress podcast, who was transformed by doing something. As a former middle school English teacher, and passionate bookworm, Monica still loves to teach and learn. She and her family are currently living nestled against the Salt Lake City mountains in their newly renovated home. Her mission is to change the world by changing women. The About Progress community guides women to grow in their identity, habits, and fulfillment, so they have the resilience they need to be leaders in their homes and communities.

What we talk about today:

  • How perfectionism shows up as all-or-nothing thinking
  • Harnessing our identity and getting clear on us to keep us afloat through the ups and downs of life
  • How to find out identity again when we feel lost in our lives

Connect with Monica:
Podcast: About Progress
Instagram: @aboutprogress
Website: https://aboutprogress.com/

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I would be honored to be your coach and help you get the changes you want to see in your life. The tools that I talk about in my podcast and use in my coaching have completely turned around my life and my relationships with my children. I know what it takes and how to make it happen. You can use the links below to get more of my content and to learn what we do in my program By Design. I love helping women tap into their inner expert and build radical connection in their relationships with their children.

Link to membership: By Design
Find me on the ‘gram: The.Parenting.Coach
My website: coachcrystal.ca
Work with me 1:1 right HERE

 

 

Episode Transcript

 

Crystal The Parenting Coach: Hey, I'm Crystal, a certified life coach and mom of four. In this podcast, we combine radical connection and positive parenting theories with the How-To Life Coaching Tools and Mindset Work to completely transform our relationship with our children.

Join me on my journey, unleash your inner parenting expert, and become the mother you've always wanted to be. Make sure you subscribe wherever you listen to your podcast and rate this podcast on Apple, and check out my transformative monthly membership for moms in the show notes.

 

Monica Packer’s background, what she does, and how she got started

Crystal The Parenting Coach: Welcome to today's episode, Recovering from Perfectionism with Monica Packer. Monica is a recovering perfectionist, mama of 4 young children – lover of creativity, habits, and personal growth. 

She is the host of the About Progress podcast, and she was transformed by doing something. As a former middle school English teacher, and passionate bookworm, Monica still loves to teach and learn. She and her family are currently living nestled against the Salt Lake City mountains in their newly renovated home. 

Her mission is to change the world by changing women. The About Progress community guides women to grow in their identity, habits, and fulfillment, so they have the resilience they need to be leaders in their homes and communities.

Hello, Monica. Thank you for being here today. 

 

Monica Packer: Well, thanks, Crystal. It's good to be here. 

 

Crystal The Parenting Coach: I am excited because I love Monica's podcast. She is awesome. I don't know if you already follow her, but you should. We'll have all the links down below so you can check her out. 

And I would love for you first to just tell us a little bit about you; what you do, and your journey to get you where you are right now. 

 

Monica Packer: Sure. I guess the nutshell is I'm primarily a podcaster at About Progress; and I started that as a mom of three little kids, and two of whom had special needs but weren't diagnosed yet at the time. 

And I was just really struggling with my own self – my own life – and being able to have the capacity I needed to be the kind of parent I needed to be for those really challenging years. 

And I started the podcast after I started a blog, just where I was kind of trying to figure it out; trying to figure out what life is supposed to look like outside of perfectionism because that had been my little demon on my shoulder, I guess, for my entire life – just directing all my choices and the ways I behaved and the way I functioned in my relationships. 

It just transcended everything, and I was trying to work outside of it and, eventually, turned into a podcast and an amazing community; and we're five years in now, almost. 

And I love what I do; I get to help other women who are wanting to find more in their lives and to find more inside of themselves, and all outside of the all-or-nothing extremes that were sold on the internet and that we can search on Pinterest.

It's been a wild and awesome ride. And now, I have four kids; and they're all 10 to three years old – and they're great. 

 

Crystal The Parenting Coach: Awesome. Okay. I love that because I think that that really resonates with a lot of what my clients and I have gone through – as well as this kind of journey of like, we have these kids that we're kind of struggling with and we're trying to figure out like who we are and what our purpose here is… and, you know, kind of, there's some direction in our lives. 

And a lot of people will come-- I just talked to a client the other day who was just saying, "I just like feel so unfulfilled."

 

Monica Packer: Oh yeah. 

 

Crystal The Parenting Coach: "I’m like, is this all there is? You know, I don't feel like I'm feel like my-- I'm at the lowest part of the totem pole, and that I have no direction or purpose." I think perfectionism definitely ties into that, right? 

Because she had even said like, one of the things that she brought up was wanting to do everything herself so that she could make sure that it was kind of done right. 

And I think social media exacerbates this, like what you said, like the Pinterest parties and, you know, Instagram beautiful houses with white walls and everything – that all look really pretty, but that's not real life all the time; and we can really use that against us. 

 

Parenting special needs kids as a perfectionist

Crystal The Parenting Coach: So, I would love to dig into that – kind of, your journey. I especially love that you said that you have kids with special needs because I think that resonates with a lot of people here as well. What did that journey look like for you? 

 

Monica Packer: In terms of kids with special needs or perfectionism?

 

Crystal The Parenting Coach: I think, both.

 

Monica Packer: I feel like they-- They definitely go hand-in-hand. If you are a recovering perfectionist, you learn really quick as a parent of any kind of child that there's so little you can control. 

But I think you especially learned that as a mom of kids with special needs, because you can't control what they're facing; you can only control the way you show up. And if you're continually trying to, you know, both fix them but also have your worth within your child – in how they're doing and how they're behaving, and how well they're following what you're trying to do for them – then you're just in a losing battle. 

And I feel like that's definitely where I was at as a young mom, was just that 'unfulfilled' comment that one of your clients gave to you, that's honestly why I'm here. It started with that whole feeling, and that's a huge part of what I try to focus on in my community is helping women be full of themselves again, be fulfilled – full of themselves again. 

A big part of that is because of how much it will affect, for good, your family. Me being full of myself, of finding fulfillment, of finding my sense of worth outside of my important and prioritized responsibilities, but being me outside of them is what has enabled me to show up to my responsibilities to my children better – because I am me, and I have the strength that they need from me. 

And, you know, my kids’ special needs haven't gotten away. In fact, last year they were just really at a fever pitch, and I didn't think it could get harder; and it did. And I was so grateful for the four years prior to that that I had been working on learning who I was and also working on my personal development outside of perfectionism so that I was supported; supported in my habits, supported in my spirit – even supported my body, you know, what I was trying to do for that so that I could be there for them. 

Not perfectly, let's make sure that's really clear. We'd have lots of low moments – but they really do go hand-in-hand to me as just being able to be your true self and be able to differentiate yourself from your kids, your responsibilities and to be full so that you can better show up for them. 

And you will feel the difference, because I definitely have felt that difference; even the difference of a year of working on myself between my third kid and my fourth kid after I had my fourth child – it was a completely different postpartum experience and after my third child. I love it.

 

Crystal The Parenting Coach: Yeah. So, I love that because I think that what you said is so key – in that, we often do that personalization thing, where we're like, 'We make our kids' behavior mean something about us.' 

And it can be really awesome if your kids are just doing amazing, and they're getting great grades, and they listen to you, and they keep their room clean, and they're just this poster child of perfection; but it can be not so awesome if you have a child that really struggles, we call them. 

You know, deep feeling kids or strong-willed children or some people call them orchid children; and if you are listening and you have one of those kids and you're making their behavior mean something about you, then it can be really a dark space. 

So, I really try, like what you said, that differentiation of like their behavior – good or bad – has nothing to do with me. And when I can turn my focus inward and find my passion and do what you said – body, mind, spirit, fuel myself – then I can so much more easily show up as a mom that I want to show up as. 

 

Monica Packer: Yeah. And it really is a night-and-day difference. I'm sure my kids can feel it – but, I mean, I definitely feel the difference.

 

How perfectionism shows up as all-or-nothing thinking

Crystal The Parenting Coach: Yeah. Tell us about a little bit about perfectionism, because I know you talk a lot about that. How did that kind of tie into your journey and what kind of tools did you feel like supported you – I don't know if you get over it, if you're a recovering perfectionist or whatever – to kind of help you through that?

 

Monica Packer: Yeah, that was such a lifelong pattern of mindset and the way I functioned – you know, it was both mind and body – you know, how I navigated the world, that it's really hard to just untangle what the roots are to that. 

But I can just say it was all encompassing; and I definitely was the stereotypical perfectionist, like the overachieving kind for most of my life until I hit a series of rock lows in my young adulthood, and that--  

You know, my perfectionism exacerbated every worst part of myself. I had a host of, you know, all kind of mental issues. I was suffering with eating disorders – plural – depression, suicidal ideation. It was just a really, really low period. 

And, you know, I worked super hard on my recovery, which I wanted to happen overnight, like a perfection to split, you know, if I did everything right. 

 

Crystal The Parenting Coach: Like just, snap my fingers and, let's figure this out.

 

Monica Packer: Yeah. And, it took many years. I mean, it's taken me 15 years; and for years, I did not think I was getting better. In fact, for a while, for a long while, it got way worse.

But as part of that recovery, I kind of went the other side of perfectionism; I went to the side of being too scared to be ambitious, too scared to have goals, too scared to stretch myself. 

And that's honestly where I think most perfectionists are; they're on the sidelines. They're in the underachieving kind of perfectionism, all out of fear of not being able to do well enough to make it all worth it. 

 

Crystal The Parenting Coach: That's so interesting. 

 

Monica Packer: Yeah. And that was the place I was in for, you know, probably 10 years. I just swung to the other side of the pendulum; and that pendulum-swinging, that's perfectionism. 

It's the all-or-nothing pendulum swing; and it's normalized so much, you hear it all the time. People saying, "I'm all-or-nothing, I'm all-or-nothing." 

 

Crystal The Parenting Coach: Yeah.

 

Monica Packer: And that's usually nothing then, and it all comes at a cost. And oftentimes, you can't see that cost in someone else – and other times in yourself, you can't see it until too late. But you do pay a cost for all. And it's not sustainable. 

But it's the same thing with nothing; nothing doesn't get you to where you want to be either. I was equally depressed on both sides of that pendulum, and equally not myself. So, like I said, five years ago--  

It was actually almost six years ago, that was the launching point of me trying to figure out what is life like, where I am stretching myself into my own discomfort zone, where I am uncovering who I am – where I am being pushed in ways that feel good and hard, but necessary, but outside of the all-or-nothing extremes. 

And so, that's the focus is-- That's where their focus is; it's about progress, not perfection. Doing that has been, it's been a long journey. But I will say like I know that my growth has been exponential outside of that all-or-nothing pendulum swing than it ever was before, even when I was an overachieving perfectionist. 

And, my self-worth is far greater than what I was either kind of perfectionist. It's so separate from my outcomes, but also, I'm still reaching for those outcomes, you know? 

And, it feels better. It feels good, but it's such a new way of doing things, so I think a lot of people are like, 'Wow, that must work for you but it doesn't work for me, you know? I'm all-or-nothing. So, I'm just going to go back to that.'

 

Crystal The Parenting Coach: Yeah. I'm just going to stick with that because it's easy and comfortable, and it's what I know. Yeah. 

 

Monica Packer: That's kind of in a nutshell. 

 

Crystal The Parenting Coach: Yeah, I love that nutshell that you gave us because I never thought about it as the like, overachieving and underachieving being the all-or-nothing thinking. I talk a lot about all-or-nothing thinking, and how we get caught in that thought trap.

 

Where Monica Packer is at in her journey with perfectionism, and what she does to overcome it

Crystal The Parenting Coach: But it's so interesting to tie this into perfectionism and see how it works out. And I love how you found a center space for you that works so well where you're still stretching and growing, and not living into that nothing either. And I'd love to see what that looks like now that you've kind of like done this personal growth journey; and, I guess, we're always still on it. 

 

Monica Packer: Oh yeah. 

 

Crystal The Parenting Coach: But what that looks like for you day-to-day now working on your body and your mind and your spirit, what do you actually do?

 

Monica Packer: Well, that's all been tossed out the window because I just moved. And so, and we have to honor our different seasons; and my season today was baking and cooking with my three-year-old – almost all day and doing a couple responsibilities in the afternoon, but nothing like any productivity expert would want to see in someone who is practicing that. 

So, before I share that, I will say that perfectionism is really at the heart of it. It's a misplacement of identity. It's placing our identity outside of ourselves, whether we place it on our accomplishments or on our failures; and that's why we feel so lost and stuck. 

So, that's why I feel like I can tell you, quite honestly, right now, I am starting to crawl my way back to my basic routines of ways that I support myself; and I know the way back, which is great.

But because I know both the way back and what progress really looks like, and how it's messy, and it's a squiggly line that slowly moves its way up. And more importantly, I know who I am outside of the dips and peaks and valleys, I guess, of progress that I know, 'It's okay, I'm going to get back, I know how to do it, I know where to start and I'm still doing great.' 

So, that's kind of where I am in this moment. But I can tell you, not even just ideally, but normally, what does help me get there, but it's always helpful to start with the truth. 

 

Crystal The Parenting Coach: Okay. I have to stop you at the truth because that is so key because I think, as women – I'm sure men probably do this also – but we swirl in that shame of like, 'Oh, I fell off the bandwagon - I'm not doing any of the things anymore, and I can't get back on.' 

And that just keeps us farther and farther and farther away from our goal. And fear is often just rooted in that shame, and we're just like spinning in this shame cycle that we can't get out of. 

So, I love that you are so supportive of your identity and of your self-worth, and that is what carries you through those dips and lows – that it doesn't change based on your productivity, that it's just innate and it's just separate. It's like that differentiation we talked about with us and our kids' behavior. 

It's like our behavior and what we actually do, is separate from who we are and our worth. 

 

The Shame Cycle: Spiral Down Vs. Spiral Up

Monica Packer: Totally. And that's actually something, one of the fundamental things I teach in my coaching; and I have one basic course where we talk about The Shame Cycle and, you know, people talk about 'spiraling down'. 

And the reason why we continue to spiral down is what you just talked about; it's because we're wrapping up our identity in our failures, and that keeps us spiraling down. 

But just like you can spiral down, you can also spiral up; and I call that the progress cycle because that's, still what you're doing is still a mess. You're still kind of swirling, but you're swirling up because as you go up, you are affirming who you are along the way – even outside of the outcomes. 

But you can say like, 'This is who I am, that's like me – I'm a person who tries, again, I'm a person who values what I need… I am a person who can be flexible, I am a person who can surmount hard obstacles,' and you just spiral more up instead of down.  

 

Crystal The Parenting Coach: I love that visualization because I do think we talk a lot about The Shame Spiral; I talk about it all the time and I love the idea of its opposite like that we can also spiral upwards too. 

 

Monica Packer: Because that's the truth of a lot of what our misconceptions are about what it looks like to grow is we just want the overnight success – and believe me, I do too. 

 

Crystal The Parenting Coach: We all do. 

 

Monica Packer: I want that-- I want it so much. And there's some things where I'm like, 'Okay now, it's time for me to cross that tipping point, I'm ready.' But that's not really what it looks like. 99.9% of the time, it's just small wins building over time. 

And that might sound so excruciating, and I know it's so hard to sail that as a coach because you're like, 'Who wants to join a program where they're like, small wins build over time and we'll gradually get you to where you want to be,' but that is the truth. 

 

Crystal The Parenting Coach: Yeah. 

 

Monica Packer: So, if you want the truth, then that's your path. If you want to hand your money over and be disappointed in a month or two or six, then follow the other path. You know, it's not-- Nothing is overnight; it's going to take time.

 

How finding our identity is the foundation of recovering from perfectionism

Crystal The Parenting Coach: Which is so great because it's the learning that comes on the way, right? If we just like immediately had success in whatever area of our life we're looking for, there would be no personal growth at all. And it's really the personal growth that changes us, that morphs us in how we really move along this journey. 

 

Monica Packer: Yeah. You see that in anyone, Crystal, who gets overnight success; and they do have that 'overnight success', but what do they usually have to follow that up? An 'overnight failure' because they don't have the foundation they need to maintain a sense of worth. 

Like you have people who end up losing all their money, like elite athletes – make it big and, all of a sudden, all their money's gone because they don't know how to deal with it. Or you have like, you know, everyone going to rehab, who their business just rocket-shipped out of, you know, the orbit – or a celebrity who's made it big with their music. 

I know I'm just going on and on, but we have those examples too. And it doesn't mean I want to like downplay what's going on in their lives or anything like that, but it's a nice contrast for us to see we need a foundation; and that foundation is hard-earned, but it's so worth it. 

 

Crystal The Parenting Coach: Okay. So, I think that you've said in such good ways that your identity is that foundation.

 

Monica Packer: Yeah. 

 

What helps nourish your body, mind, and spirit

Crystal The Parenting Coach: So, I would love to dig more into identity, but I first want you to circle back to when you're in that kind of good head space, what nourishing your body mind and spirit kind of looks like on a regular basis for you. 

 

Monica Packer: It really comes down to habits. And it's so interesting because over the course of my work, there's been different little threads that I can see are woven through all the things I've learned – from the people I've interviewed, from the women I've coached, from the women in my community. 

And there's kind of three that really stand out, and that's what my work is primarily focused on now. But the two that I want to focus on with you right now; 

 

1. Identity

One is identity. And identity to me is; who am I, and what matters to me? And that goes back to our values too. So, everything with that. And, what you want out of your life, as well – it goes to desires and values. 

 

2. Habits

The other third is habits. And that one kind of knocked me on the head a lot. And I kept being like, really? I know like I really love to learn about self-help. I've been into that since I was a little girl, but I'm just like, 'But I don't want to teach about habits.' 

And then, you realize the two, work hand-in-hand, who you are inside will direct the way that you behave and vice versa – the way you behave will support who you are inside. 

The two have to work hand in hand, but not perfectly. And that's what I hope people can take away from this interview; habits, to me, are not about regimented ways that we must live our lives

Habits are behaviors that support who we are and what matters to us. They're meant to be supportive – not meant to be another list of rules to chain ourselves to or to make ourselves go down that Shame Cycle we talked about. No, they're just meant to be supportive. 

And so, that's partly why the last month after, since we've moved, I've been like, 'Right now what I need to support myself is to sleep instead of waking up earlier like I usually do.' I’m not, but now I'm ready now. Like, now I'm like, 'Okay, right now I'm ready to support myself again.' 

So, to me, it comes down to habits. In terms of supportive habits, even then it's just a few basics. It's just making sure that you start with the bookends of your day, morning, and night. 

What is one small thing you can do in the morning that will help create the feeling that you want so that you can be that person during your day? And at nighttime, what is one small way you conserve yourself to wind down at night, to feel supported in the ways that you need to get re-energized? 

And it really can start there. It's just the bookends of your day, how you conserve yourself. 

 

Crystal The Parenting Coach: I love that. I love just thinking about that. I haven't heard of it, like, verbalized in that way. And so, it's really easy for me to, at the end of the day, just be like, 'Okay, I'm tired and I'm finally in bed and I'm done,' and, like, just go to bed. So, even though I have a really supportive morning routine, I haven't really thought about that, you know, evening routine being just as supportive. 

 

Monica Packer: Oh yeah.

 

Crystal The Parenting Coach: I love the word 'support', right? It's not this like, I have to go do like 100 pushups and 10 jumping jacks, and wake up two hours before my kids and like journal for 10 minutes and all these things. Like just what feels like support to you, and just doing those small little things at the bookends of your day. 

 

Monica Packer: I'm going to release an episode in a couple weeks called Your Morning Start the Night before, because that really is the key. If you want a better morning, you need to start the night before, which most people are going to be like, dang it. 

But here's the thing, like it still doesn't mean you have to have a 10-step routine. People often think habits are like these 10-step routines that you just kind of referenced – and no, that's a routine, that's not a habit. 

So, you really can start with just one thing; and that can be taking a deep breath and doing a Sun Salutation before you get in bed. That can be something productive-wise, like writing down the top three things you want to do the next day or writing one line in your journal. 

You know, it's just-- Again, it's about the feelings and supporting yourself. One small habit can be the beginning of what will become a very supportive routine; and the bookends of the days are what we can control. 

I mean, my days are very uncontrollable in the middle. Like everything in the middle has to be, I'm in a reactive season with my family. I have to be more reactive about what the needs are; where do I need to go, when and how, who needs me now? You know? 

But the mornings and the nights, those are the two times of days I can control, even if it's two minutes before my kids get up. 

 

Crystal The Parenting Coach: Yeah. I love that it can be such a small amount of time because I do think we often get tied up in like, 'Well, I have to wake up so early and do this whole thing.' And to me, when I think of support, personally, it's like breathing in a few deep breaths of fresh air outside. Like, just that. 

Or write like a 60-second meditation or just writing down like a quick little like thought dump about like what I'm thinking or feeling; it doesn't have to be long. It can just be something really small and really supportive. 

And I think as we continuously do that, then it might build from that. But it'll be so much more natural than us just trying to like be so productive and then, you know, feel bad about ourselves because we forget to do it Day 3.

 

Monica Packer: And it goes back to what we talked about earlier about small wins building over time; that's the process in my community's language, we call that The Process. That's the process to growth; and always – internally, externally. But that's what habits are, you don't think it's making that big of a difference to take those two deep breaths when you wake up in the morning. But yes, it does over time, especially as it continues to build into more supportive habits that you need.

 

Harnessing our identity and getting clear on us to keep us afloat through the ups and downs of life

Crystal The Parenting Coach: Yeah, totally. So, I'd like to dig more into Identity. I usually ask people like at the end, like, what is one way that you could – one tip that you could leave, I guess, with someone who's struggling? 

But I would love for you to specifically focus on identity. I love how your identity has been such a strong part of your journey, and been able to keep you going through all of the different ups and downs of your life. 

And I would imagine that pretty much everybody that's listening can relate to the ups and downs in life. And also, us tying our self-worth to productivity, which I think as women we just naturally do. 

So, for somebody that's really struggling with this; and is like, 'Okay, so identity is the key and like what now?' Like, what do they do? 

 

Monica Packer: I'm smiling like this because what you just said, that phrase 'Identity is the key' is literally the title of the first lesson in my whole course that is devoted to this very topic. 

 

Crystal The Parenting Coach: I love it. 

 

Monica Packer: My mind is going in a million directions because of that course. I've got a six-week course called Finding Me. So, if they want an intensive way to do that, that's still affordable, go to aboutprogress.com/finding me. But, I'm trying to think about of the many things we learn in that course. 

 

Crystal The Parenting Coach: You give more than one tip. Whenever I say one tip, people are like, 'Wait, I don't know, I don't know.' 

 

Monica Packer: No, this is this a good practice for me because I'm trying to get better at distilling; as you can tell, I have a lot of words, I'm trying to get better at distilling it down to just one or two things. 

 

Crystal The Parenting Coach: Okay. So, give us one or two. 

 

Monica Packer: Okay. I think the easiest and probably most important thing good new is to do something. We talked about the all-or-nothing there. The middle ground is something – not all, not nothing… do something. 

And as part of that, do something to explore who you are. So, six years ago is when I created my first 'do something' list; and it was just a list of ways I was trying to explore who am I, what lights me up inside, what makes me excited, what's pushing me, what's challenging me in ways that are a little scary and a little uncomfortable – but really confidence building even if I fail at them? 

And it was a list of 30 things I wanted to do before I turned 30; and I didn't finish the whole list, that wasn't the point – but it changed my entire life, it really did. It's not a 'goal list'. It's not another list of resolutions and habits. It's not even a bucket list. It's simple ways that you were exploring who you are again. 

For me, it was like, one of my items was 'Go on five new hikes', you know, and I could do that with my family or on my own. Another one was 'Go to a museum by myself' because I used to love Art and Art History; it was a way to reconnect with who I was. 

Another one was like 'Do 20 new recipes', and I kept an ongoing list and I counted baked oatmeal. It wasn't about achieve, achieve, achieve; it was about explore, uncover, find fulfillment, find me.

And I do that now every year; I create a 'do something' list. Sometimes they're very long and sometimes they're like 10, 10 items in a year. My last year has been that way. But no matter what, doing something to find fulfillment to explore who I am, to reconnect with old parts of me and new uncovering parts of me’ it continues to be life-changing. 

 

Crystal The Parenting Coach: Yeah, I love that. I love that idea of 'do something'. I talk about trying to find our passion again often; and women are like, 'Wait, I don't know, like how do I do that?' 

And I think it does start with what you said. Like it's like, just try something. Like, for me, it was like 'I'm going to go try yoga – I've always thought that would be cool, but I've never done it.' Or like, 'I'm going to learn about meditation, I've always thought that would be kind of cool and I didn't really know what that looked like.' So, just like trying new and different things to discover who you are. 

 

Monica Packer: I've got an episode on that too. It was the first episode of 2021. Shares more about how they can do that themselves if they're like, 'Oh I want to do more of that,' because people easily get sucked into making them habits or goals. But that episode can help them be able to know the difference between the two. 

But no matter what, just try it, because if you feel pressured by it or it's not working right or you feel like a failure because you didn't finish something, then you know, 'Oh this needs to shift or my mindset needs to shift on it.' 

 

Crystal The Parenting Coach: Yeah, that is gold. I love that tip. So, good job distilling it into one tip for us. 

 

Monica Packer: I tried.

 

Crystal The Parenting Coach: So, I would love for you to share just how our listeners can connect with you, your podcast and all your different things; and we will have them posted below as well. 

 

How to connect with Monica Packer

Monica Packer: Thanks, Crystal. So, I mean, you're a podcast listener, right? 

 

Crystal The Parenting Coach: Yeah, totally.

 

Monica Packer: All those who are listening, so just go over and subscribe to About Progress, or listen to an episode or two. You don't have to give that commitment right away, but I'd love to have you as part of the community there. 

And I'm on Instagram @aboutprogress as well. But it's really a wonderful community. The women there are just exceptional, and so down-to-earth; and yet, so smart and forward-moving. It's been a privilege to be a part of it. 

 

Crystal The Parenting Coach: I love that. I love that. Thank you so much for your time today, Monica. 

 

Monica Packer: Thanks, Crystal.


Crystal The Parenting Coach: I hope you enjoyed today's episode. Make sure that you give it Five Stars on Apple, and check out my monthly membership for moms in the show notes.

Cover image for the parenting personality quiz, 4 sketches of a mom doing a different activity with her child
Cover image for the parenting personality quiz, 4 sketches of a mom doing a different activity with her child

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