S08|16 - Parenting Spicy Ones with Mary Van Geffen

 

Do you feel like parenting certain kids seems harder than others? I have a few spicy children and parenting them has been one of the biggest challenges of my life (and also SO rewarding). Join Mary Van Geffen and I as we chat all about spicy ones, both in how to parent them, and how to parent as one. 

In this episode you’ll hear: 

• Parenting spicy ones can differ from typical parenting struggles, and we talk all about tips to help you parent them in a way that fosters their sparkle.
• What we can learn from spicy ones (and other difficult relationships).
• How to NOT get on the same page as your partner, and parent super effectively anyways.
• How to bring in some FIRM to the “gentle parenting” (and why our kids need it).
• We also dig into how to help dads who may not “get” connection-based parenting, and how to decide what kind of parent-child relationship we want in the future, and what we can about it now to get there.

Mary Van Geffen is the international parenting coach for moms of Spicy Ones TM️. She helps people who are highly competent in life but overwhelmed by motherhood to lean into the spiritual discipline of staying calm and cultivating warmth and tenderness all while trying to wrangle fiery future CEOs. Often this requires serious skill-building and the balm of self-compassion.

Mary is a certified Simplicity Parenting Counselor® and Professional Co-Active Coach, but her greatest achievement is cultivating a calm, kind and firm relationship with her Spicy go-getter daughter (now 18), mild child son (16) and un-Enneagramable hubby.

Connect with Mary on IG: HERE
Join her FIRM class: HERE

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Parent School: Discover your own unique path, with confidence… raising emotionally intelligent children that leave your home knowing that you truly, deeply care for them… that you aways have, and you always will. Isn’t that we all want deep down? That is my goal for me, and for you… and for the future generation for children we are raising. To be seen. To be heard. To be valued. To feel loved. To feel supported. To feel known. To welcome them to be themselves- fully and completely. That is The Work. I am here for it. Welcome. 

Join me for the LAST LIVE round of Parent School:

• shame resiliency: how to feel shame and move through it, what triggers us and why, and how to move through heaviness and use it for growth.
• emotional regulation: what co-regulation is and how to support our children from our energy- not our words (not scripts and mantras, this work is much deeper than that), how to support ourselves and our kids through big emotions.
• the power of our thoughts and beliefs: how to separate who we are from what we think, how to create the exact relationship we want through the power of our mind
• connection-based parenting: why it’s the way of the future, how to parent in a relationship-first manner, developing deep and lasting connections that last a lifetime.
• 6 modules covering all these topics, and more. 2 group coaching calls to get support in your individual family situations. (add-on available for your partner to join).

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Crystal The Parenting Coach: Hi, I'm Crystal The Parenting Coach. Parenting is the thing that some of us just expected to know how to do. It's not like other areas of your life where you go to school and get taught, get on the job training, or have mentors to help you, but now you can get that help here.

I believe that your relationship with your children is one of the most important aspects of your life, and the best way that you can make a positive impact on the world and on the future. I've made parental relationships my life study; and I use life coaching tools, emotional wellness tools, and connection-based parenting to build amazing relationships between parents and their children.

If you want an even better relationship with your child, this podcast will help you. Take my Parenting Quiz, the link is in the show notes. Once we know what your parenting style is, we will send some tips tailored to you and a roadmap to help you get the most out of my podcast.

 

Hello, welcome to the Parenting Coach Podcast with Crystal; Parenting Spicy Ones with Mary Van Geffen. 

Do you feel like parenting certain kids seems harder than with other kids? I have a few spicy children and parenting them has been one of the biggest challenges of my life (It still is, and it's also so rewarding). 

Join Mary Van Geffen and I as we chat all about Spicy Ones, both in how to parent them, and how to parent as one. 

In this episode, you'll hear all about how parenting Spicy Ones differs from typical parenting struggles and how you can support yourself in a way that fosters their sparkle. 

We also talk about what we can learn from Spicy Ones (and other difficult relationships), how to not get on the same page as your partner – I know that sounds backwards, but just listen in – and how to parent super effectively anyways, how to bring some firm into the gentle parenting (and why our kids need it).

And we also dig in to help dads who might not get connection-based parenting or want to, understand it a little bit more and how to decide what kind of a parent-child relationship they really want and what they really value and how they can get there. 

 

Hello everyone. Welcome to the Parenting Coach Podcast with, Crystal. Thank you for being here today. I hope that you have been enjoying all these fun interviews that we have been doing; and if you have, I would love for you to hop over and rate, review, subscribe, do all the things on whatever podcast platform you listen to. 

I am especially excited for today; I've been waiting for a few months to get our lovely guest on the podcast, and I cannot wait for the conversation. I think that so many of you'll resonate with this topic just like I do as well. 

 

What Mary Van Geffen does and how she got started

Crystal The Parenting Coach: And I'm going to have my friend Mary Van Geffen introduce herself, and also just tell us a little bit about what she does. Hello, Mary. Welcome.

 

Mary Van Geffen: Hello, everybody. I'm Mary Van Geffen. I'm the Parent Coach for the Spicy Ones; and I try to help, mostly moms, find their effective parenting sweet spot by strengthening their ability to be calm, kind, and firm. I think usually we're really good at one of those and abysmal at the other, and trying to kind of find that balance because we need-- we need calm, we need kind, and we need firm. 

And I have a 19-year-old Spicy One, who is in college and a mild child, 17; although, is any 17-year-old a mild child? I don't know. I think teenagehood, in itself, is a very spicy situation. 

 

Crystal The Parenting Coach: Yeah. 

 

Mary Van Geffen: And I tend to reach people through Instagram. Every day, I am putting a tip on there, and trying to keep it light and fun. And I have a lot of digital courses. My signature one is Moms of Spicy Ones, which is an eight-week class for folks who are having a hard time liking their kid, and are worried that they are doing something to dim their child's spark, but also walking on eggshells.

 

Crystal The Parenting Coach: Yes. I love that because I do feel like-- I mean, I'm thinking about my Spicy Ones. They have this like beautiful sparkle, this amazingness to them as well. And I think that oftentimes it can-- we get agitated, we get frustrated and we want to figure out how can we parent them so that we don't dim that…so that we can encourage that and actually bring that part of them out of them. So, I love this topic. I think we can all relate to Spicy Ones. 

 

The definition of a "Spicy One"

Crystal The Parenting Coach: Why don't you give us a little bit of a description about what a Spicy One is? Like, how do people know if they haven't heard that term before, maybe, what you're talking about?

 

Mary Van Geffen: Well, we were saying before we hit recording that you kind of know if you have a Spicy One. But I'll explain my version because I made up this term to cover, kind of, three scenarios. One is like, this child is just uniquely intense and inflexible, fierce, justice-minded, passionate; there's sort of that. 

But there's also a lot of moms that would call their kid a Spicy One because they themselves are still working through some childhood wounding or a real high need for control or to look good in front of other people or to just have some peace or maybe the mom is overstimulated. So, it's kind of a combination. Like we can talk mostly about the kids. But I do want to put that caveat that your version of a Spicy One may not be spicy to me; I might be like, well this kid's a piece of cake. So, it just depends what we bring to it. 

But a Spicy One expresses themselves in big emotional outbursts. They go from joyful screaming to rage, and everybody experiences a bit of a mood whiplash when they're around them. And you can have this great plan for a family outing, but the Spicy One can single-handedly destroy it because their just ability to emit their mood is so strong. 

They want a lot of independence and doing it their own way. They have a strong loyalty to their own soul instead of you, the authority. They're kind of built to be an adult, but unfortunately, they're still a kid; and society's looking at you to manage this person. 

They are completely true to themselves, not others. They aren't afraid to take up space, which is very triggering if you are like a people-pleaser and you're just trying to do the right thing…and here's this kid who does not care, and they either exhibit like a huge zest for life or complain that they hate life and don't want to be in your family anymore. 

So, it's sort of like huge swings. They've got lots of energy. They're generally very gifted in one way and inept in another; maybe really emotionally immature, but also super sensitive and noticing of emotions around them. They tend to have a lot of peer issues because, in some ways, they're asynchronously; I can't say that word today, asynchronously. Can you say that?

 

Crystal The Parenting Coach: Asynchronously, I think, I don't know.

 

Mary Van Geffen: Asynchronously developed where they're really like brilliant and great at talking to an adult, but they lose it and threaten their friends. You know what I mean? So, they struggle with friendships; and they're going to be the change makers and the free spirits and the artists, and they will make this world a better place. But man, it's a tough parenting assignment.

 

Crystal The Parenting Coach: Oh, I love everything you said; and I feel like I resonated. because we just-- we are still traveling right now, but we've been traveling around the world. We tried to circumnavigate the whole globe; well, we did, I guess. We have circumnavigated the whole globe in seven months. 

And my youngest Spicy One right now is eight. And it does not matter how cool of a place you would take her to; we could be like at the Louvre and she's just-- or at the Eiffel Tower and she's like, 'This is so boring. Why are we here? I'm tired, I'm hungry, I'm hot, we walked too much.' Right? 

Anyways, we get back from this trip, we're back in North America again, but not home. And somebody was asking, how we enjoyed travel and she piped up and was like, 'It is the worst in the world.' 

And I was like, 'Okay, okay. Well, that's-- that's what-- That's what it is.'

 

Mary Van Geffen: Okay. Number one, you need to make a reel that it's just like a picture of the Eiffel Tower and then it shows her, like, ugh, and then it-- The Great Wall of China, and it's just her--

 

Crystal The Parenting Coach: So many pictures of that, so many pictures like that of her. Yeah.

 

Mary Van Geffen: Oh, I bet. Some of that is a Spicy One's real need for regularity and structure and ritual and rhythm that they can be so out of sync and also compelled. Like usually you've got a Spicy One who's like dying for novelty and wants to experience all the things, but then is acting out because their system can't really handle this.

 

Crystal The Parenting Coach: Yes, 100%. And I know she doesn't like it too hot. She doesn't like it too cold. She doesn't like when she's too hungry, she doesn't like when she's too tired. 

 

Mary Van Geffen: Yes. We're also--

 

Crystal The Parenting Coach: Right?

 

Mary Van Geffen: Because I'm a Spicy One. Yes.

 

Crystal The Parenting Coach: She wants all of those things; and sometimes we're walking like 20 kilometers in a day, and it's like not really in her wheelhouse. And so, we understand that, we get that, and we make a lot of space for that. But it is just those little moments. I've written down a couple little sayings that happened around the world of just like the most iconic places, and then these things that would come out of my little kids' mouths because the 15, the 10-year-old, and the 8-year-old are all very spicy. 

My 17-year-old is, like you said, very mild – one of those mild teenagers, as mild as a teenager can get. But I will say that it has transformed me being in the situation where we don't have as much schedule and routine having to figure out an entirely new way because we had it down pretty well, I think, at home in the normal routine of things. 

So, I resonate with all of this, and I feel like-- We were talking a little bit about this before we recorded and I really want to talk about this point because you said calm, firm, and kind, right? Those are the three?

 

Mary Van Geffen: Mm-hmm.

 

Gentle Parenting Vs. Connection-based Parenting

Crystal The Parenting Coach: So, I think that we, like you said, are usually really good at one area; and then usually really abysmal in the other or the other areas. I see this often where parents will kind of swing from either being really, really, control force, coercive, like overly firm…or if they don't want to parent that way, maybe because their parents parented that way or their partner parents that way, and they don't love that way of parenting. Then they swing all the way over to this really, what they call gentle parenting, but is really very passive and very--

 

Mary Van Geffen: Or permissive parenting. Yeah.

 

Crystal The Parenting Coach: Yes. Yeah. Really permissive and really just allowing the child to kind of do whatever, being friends with the child, a lot less guidance. And so, I love that you include firm in that; and I would love to talk more about that piece. Like, and maybe it's the term "gentle" that really gets in our way of like that we also need to be firm. But can you talk on that a little bit?

 

Mary Van Geffen: Yes. And just little plug that on May 18th I'm teaching Firm class live, and I only do that once a year. So, please join me if you feel like you are walking on eggshells and inconsistent. And I think, I love your phrasing of connection-based parenting because that's what it is in a nutshell. 

And I think in our desire to not hurt our children the way we might have been hurt in childhood, we are like a pendulum that has gone all the way to the other side sometimes. And I was even-- I'm in the middle of writing something and I was like, do I use the word discipline or am I going to alienate all these well-meaning millennials that that discipline hurt; maybe their parent took a how to spank class at church.

 

Crystal The Parenting Coach: Yes.

 

Mary Van Geffen: And so, we're in this weird place of renegotiating what the role of parent means. And there's instances where we have been aiming for a child-centric environment, which is awesome, but maybe the scales have tilted over and it's actually a child-led environment. And that's great when you're talking about curriculum and learning…but as a family, it can't be child-led. They just got to this planet. They've only been here 4, 5, 6, 7 years. They're not ready to be the leader. 

But there's a wide chasm between what my mom used to say, which is "There's only one queen in this house" and "I had to beat you down a few notches". And, there's that vibe; that's not what we want. 

But we also don't want like, 'Well, honey, do you want to go to school today?' 

Or, 'A red cup or blue cup?'

You know, that fear that if I say the wrong thing, this kid's going to lose it. I want you to allow your kids' process-- allow them the dignity of their process, which is to lose it a lot; and that doesn't mean you're doing anything wrong. 

If you have a Spicy One, they are really emotional about bumping up against boundaries; and you will have to do a lot of gymnastics in your brain to figure out, is this a boundary that I want to keep or is this one going to like just ruin it for everybody? 

And like, that is such a personal decision. Nobody can come in-- No expert can say, "Oh, always do this." Although actually I'm working on a free PDF that is, here are the boundaries you absolutely must set. Like the house rules every family should have. 

And here are the house rules that are like totally up to you, and here are the ones that you have no right to set. You can't tell a child how much to eat; that's not-- that's none of your business. You can't tell a child when to fall asleep; you can tell them when bedtime is. 

So, sometimes we get into things where we're over-controlling, and then way on the other side is permissive in a form of abandonment to be like, 'Oh, I just hope he be drops soon and falls asleep.' 

No, he needs a regular routine that he can push against. And it's hard, I just get it…that it feels like there's so many ways to do it wrong and that's part of, I think, my mission and yours that like, 'No, there isn't actually.' Like, let's get really clear on your values and what's most important. But I do believe that a lot of connection-based parenting is not necessarily common sense. What do you think?

 

Crystal The Parenting Coach: Yeah. I was thinking I think it does come intuitively to us when we've done some healing on our own. But what I see so often is like, one; we're pretending to do gentle parenting, but it's not actually authentic because our energy is totally not in that space. It's like, 'Let me be kind to you, let me show you compassion and empathy.' 

But inside I'm like, 'This is so ridiculous, why are they behaving this way? I don't want to handle this,' all of the things like, our kids can feel that. Like we don't even have to say anything, and they can feel that from us. 

But then like you said, again, we can swing over to that other side of just being really overly gentle, overly permissive, and not having any boundaries. And I love the freebie that you're talking about, that sounds amazing. Because I do think there are some boundaries that are absolutely necessary that we need to be holding to…but there's so much that aren't. 

And I think we're so over boundaried; we're like having this rule, having this rule. 

 

Mary Van Geffen: Yes.

 

Crystal The Parenting Coach: Like sit still here, stand up here, clean this here. And I think some of them are important, and some of them aren't.

 

Mary Van Geffen: Wait, so DM me the word house rules, and I will send you this PDF because I do think part of a successful and happy parenting journey is to have less rules, and to know your why of every single rule. Like, what made you set this one? 

 

Crystal The Parenting Coach: Yes. 

 

Mary Van Geffen: And then to be okay to drop a lot of them. And usually, it's…if you were home alone with this kid, you'd be okay with it. It's the-- It's the fear of judgment from the tribe, the other people, and the being seen as a bad mom that that really makes it hard.

 

How to NOT get on the same page as your partner, and parent super effectively anyways

Crystal The Parenting Coach: Yeah. I want to talk a little bit about dads too. So, I met some families around the world; it's called world schooling, and we meet up in different cities and stuff. So, anyways, I'm meeting up with a family in different cities, and we got to talk about parenting because, often, people are like, 'What do you do?' 

And I'm like, 'Oh, I'm a Parenting Coach.' 

And they're like, 'Well, here's all the things I want to talk about.' 

 

Mary Van Geffen: Yes.

 

Crystal The Parenting Coach: So, one of the things that came up was this idea of; are we actually ruining our kids because we're doing gentle parenting, because we don't have boundaries, because we let them do whatever they want? 

I think it's seen as being permissive, especially for the more masculine energy males that are like, 'Oh, but like, my parents did it this way and they taught me respect, and they taught me all of these things that now have been good for me in my life.' 

And they feel like the new generation is just way too soft, way too gentle, not really teaching, guiding, leading, and letting the kids do whatever; and that like the entire next generation is very disrespectful and disorderly and rambunctious or whatever. 

So, I would love for you to speak on that specifically because I think a lot of moms struggle to get their partners on the same page with their parenting style because I honestly think a lot of dads feel this way where they're like, 'Well, how do we keep this idea of firm and boundaries? Like, it's hard to balance both of those.'

 

Mary Van Geffen: Yeah. It is really hard. And often someone's like, 'Can you help me get my husband on the same page?' My first instinct is like, 'Can you-- Can you two go to marriage therapy?' 

And I was like, not the answer anyone wants; and talk about what your shared values are. Sounds like respect is really important to your husband, and for you it's gentleness and kindness; and there's beauty in both of those, right? 

So, I do think that you can remind your partner, if they're not into the connection-based parenting, that the number one way to teach a child is by modeling, is by your own behavior. 

So, if it's important to you that your child grow up to be a functioning member of society, which, of course, it's important to you, but how you define that is different, right? So, if you define it as they jump up and ask how they can help and they are very involved in bringing a meal to fruition or cleaning up after everything…or they use their pleases and thank yous, or they speak gently even when they're angry…so much of that is just caught by osmosis. 

So, I would ask that, dad, if that's important to you, then we have to really watch our own tone of voice because, poop flows downhill. And if we're like, 'What are you thinking?' then big brother is asking, seven-month-old, 'What are you thinking?' Right?

 

Crystal The Parenting Coach: Yeah.

 

Mary Van Geffen: So, I think we can teach those things by how we behave when our child is out of control. And I think it really can help a dad when we talk about brain development and how long it takes for the prefrontal cortex to fully come online, which is like the rational space. We immediately have that-- I'm blanking on the name of the back part of the brain, the brain stem. Do you remember the name?

 

Crystal The Parenting Coach: No. People call it like the Primitive Brain or the lower brain, but I can't remember like the neuroscientist term for it.

 

How to help dads who may not "get" connection-based parenting

Mary Van Geffen: Right. Well, we know what we're talking about; and that is immediately ready with verbs like go, hits, stop, it's ready. But this ability to hold two things in mind and to have empathy, which is a very non-concrete skill that takes a long time. 

So, understanding that first time compliance is kind of what that dad wants, and there's so much sacrifice for that because you're also building this relationship. And so, and on some level, sometimes you will have to choose; 'What's more important to me? That my kid does exactly what I want, I have full authority over this kid and they lack autonomy – they just do what I say because there's a slight fear that if they don't yes, I will punish in some way?'

 

How to decide what kind of parent-child relationship we want in the future, and what we can about it now to get there

Mary Van Geffen: Like, is that more important to you or is it, 'You know what? I want to build a lifelong relationship so that this kid at 15 wants to come out and chat with me while I'm in the garage working on my car.' Because I know a lot of dads who right around 15 or 16, that teenager is done. 

And so, you may get short-term compliance, but it comes at a cost; and that dad might be listening and saying, "I'm still in relationship with my parents." Okay. But maybe ask your spouse, is it a healthy one? Is it a mutually beneficial one? Or, is there a lot of guilt? 

And I mean, this is a grand experiment on some level, we can just name that, that that we are bringing consciousness and relational dynamics into what used to be a hierarchical-- Hierarch--

 

Crystal The Parenting Coach: Another tricky word Hierarchal, maybe. I don't know.

 

Mary Van Geffen: Hierarchical, gosh, all the big words today; they're not working out for me. Anyway, it used to be a power dynamic of, 'I'm up; and you're down, kid.' And we're switching that. And, of course, there's a lot of growing pains. Anyway, I could keep talking about it, but I don't have a magic bullet for getting dads on board. What do you say to that?

 

Crystal The Parenting Coach: I actually tell people to stop trying to get on board. I think that we overfocus on that, and then we analyze every little aspect that they do, and then we micromanage them, and then they get madder and then they shut down and withdraw or they get aggressive or whatever. 

And I think that, like you said, shared values is actually an easy conversation. Like, you might not even need to go to therapy for that; you could just sit down and be like, 'What's important to me? What do we want?' 

And usually, we want to be unified. We want to have kids that love us. We care about our kids' emotional growth; we want what's best for them. And how we get there might be very different. But if we have those, what is connecting us? What do we-- what do we agree on? And we focus more on what unifies us and we just let a go of what divides us. Right? 

We don't have to micromanage every time our partner does something that isn't the way that we would've done it, right? 

 

Mary Van Geffen: Yes.

 

Crystal The Parenting Coach: And just like our kids, we wouldn't want to do that with our children also. Like they're going to-- They're going to hate that.

 

Mary Van Geffen: Right. Like I remember trying to teach my child to read; and I wish I was as cool as you, I was just augmenting what the public schools were doing. And I would like tell the teacher, "She wrote this out, but look, all these words are wrong." 

And the teacher was like, 'Whoa, I need you to step away from the teaching process because we are celebrating that she's writing, we are not at the stage yet to be circling that the was misspelled.' 

And I think it's the same when your partner is watching what you're doing, and trying little things; we don't need to point out what they're doing wrong…like, get your side of the street all clean. 

And I will say I've worked with over 1200 individual moms through Moms of Spicy Ones. And time and time again, what I see is that when one person in a family system changes, the entire family system changes; so, never discount what a huge ripple in your family it is when you take a moment to slowly breathe out and not react. 

And your husband is feeling that in his body too. His body wants to go crazy and he is looking at you and he's learning, and we're all healing. And so, it's amazing what you're doing, and it is enough.

 

Crystal The Parenting Coach: Yeah, it is enough. And I think, I love what you said, I think that it's just-- I think that reading analogy is perfect. That writing analogy is like, can we just be okay that they're trying and that what they do looks very different than what it looks like for us? 

And that whole idea of clean your side of the road first, like that's probably going to take your whole life. You're probably not going to take-- go to the space where you're like, 'Wow, my side of the street is like all the way clean now. There's like literally nothing I need to work on in parenting. So, now I can go and tell him what he is doing wrong.'

 

Mary Van Geffen: That's like the side of my husband's bed is so gross. There's like Christmas gifts still there that he hasn't put away. And I keep saying, I'm going to tell him to clean it up, but not until everything I own is off the floor in this house and I can't get there.

So, it's been months because I can't get my side of the street clean; and I want to be able to say, "Look around, do you see anything of mine? It's time for you to clean that area," but we're not there yet.

 

Crystal The Parenting Coach: Yeah. I think part of it-- Compassion flows out, right? It's like, I'm going to have compassion for me, I'm going to have more compassion for my kids, I'm going to have more compassion for my husband. And I think part of it is this false authenticity. 

We get to this kindness that we think is kindness, but it's not really; inside, we're still just frustrated and angry…and we can use all these same skills with our partner, it doesn't have to be just with our kids. Right? 

It's like…oh, if I want to be kind and loving and accepting of my children, can you also use those tools that you've been learning and that you agree with in your partner relationship? Like they can-- They can still work.

 

Mary Van Geffen: Yeah. And I would-- I would add to that like, I mean, my mom used to get really mad when I'd say, "Oh, that person's really nice." 

And she said, "What does nice mean?" 

My mom was like the original Spicy One, Enneagram 8 – just kind of like fierce. 

And I'd say, "Well, they're kind." 

And she'd say, "Well, what's so important about that?" 

Okay, let's break it down, in terms of what's important about it; like living and growing up in an environment where your parents have high, unconditional positive regard for you creates a self-esteem and a security and attachment that allows you to go out and conquer mountains – if that's what people do. It allows you to go out and create from this place of security.

And so, if kind doesn't resonate with you, how about unearned unconditional high positive regard for the people in your lives – whether that's your child or your spouse, where you are doing the work internally to cultivate liking that person? And I'm right there with you. There's someone in my house I'm having a hard time liking…so I'm getting resources to do that because it's so important for giving that person a sense of security to go out into the world.

 

Crystal The Parenting Coach: Absolutely. And if you feel like you are doing well at that within your parenting sphere, just see what kinds of-- like what kinds of tools have worked for you to get you there, and then how you can connect those with your partner as well. 

And I would say like most of it is honestly like cultivating self-compassion. If we can cultivate self-compassion for us, it flows out so much more naturally and authentically for people around us, including your partner. 

So, I would work on that too in that like; how do I think I'm doing as a parent? What's happening-- What's happening for me? What do I feel about me? What do I think about me? What do I believe about me? How do I treat myself?

And starting there is really helpful as well.

 

Mary Van Geffen: Yeah, because your-- There's also projection, right? 

 

Crystal The Parenting Coach: Yeah.

 

Mary Van Geffen: The thing that you're like, 'Oh, oh, it's so irritating when my child or my spouse does this thing.' Often, it's the part of you cannot be with. 

And so, to see it in someone else is just so triggering; and so, noticing like, 'Why am I not loving myself? Because I get angry and I'm not kind,' finding that thing that is within you that is irritating you about someone else, that's like a--

 

Crystal The Parenting Coach: Always. Yes.

 

Mary Van Geffen: -Level 301.

 

Crystal The Parenting Coach: Where is that within me? And I remember when I first started my coaching certification, this was like four or five years ago, and I was working on a family member. I have a big family and I'm like, 'Okay, I'm going to work on my relationship with this one.'

And I said something to my husband, but they're just so passive aggressive all the time; I just cannot handle it. 

And then I was in this coaching program and they said like, "Look inside yourself to see where that is." 

And I was like, 'I'm not passive aggressive at all, am I?' 

And he like choke laughed. 

And I was like, 'What do you mean?'

And he was like, 'Uh, what did you, what-- How am I supposed to answer that?' 

And I was like, 'I'm not.'

And he was like, 'Well, yeah, well, maybe not.' 

Anyways, my husband's sweet. So, I started thinking about it more; and I really noticed like there actually-- like, what if it's true that I also have this part of me that's in me that makes it difficult for me to accept this in others? And where do I see that in myself? 

And that is really hard work; that is really uncomfortable work to be like, what is happening inside me that feels so triggering about this person, about my child, about my partner? 

But doing that work will help the work of how you want to show up as a parent in a more authentic way, be a lot more possible.

 

Mary Van Geffen: Yeah.

 

How to bring in some FIRM to the “gentle parenting” (and why our kids need it)

Crystal The Parenting Coach: So, my kind of last thing that I want to talk about is this idea of swinging over to the gentle side; this gentle parenting that we talk about. And I don't love that word just because I think we have the wrong idea around what gentle parenting is. 

So, tell us a little bit about what you think it is, and how we can kind of bring in the firm aspect to it.

 

Mary Van Geffen: Yeah. And I don't think I identify anymore as gentle parenting either because I've just heard so much of it compared to permissive parenting. So, I like Authoritative Versus Authoritarian. And I like Responsive Parenting. And I like Connection-based Parenting. 

So, are you asking me more like, what's the golden type of parenting that I want for people?

 

Crystal The Parenting Coach: Well, I think that when people-- Like you mentioned like this new generation kind of moms coming up that is like, kind of grasping onto this idea and loves it, but might find themselves a little bit more timid or a little bit more permissive. How do they bring the firm aspect into that? Because maybe they really have calm and kind down, who knows, but like how--

 

Mary Van Geffen: Okay, gotcha.

 

Crystal The Parenting Coach: How can we bring in the firm?

 

Mary Van Geffen: Okay. Yeah. And I will say you need calm first because any of the tools I could teach don't work if you are just like, 'Ugh, I'm trying to be kind to you.' Right? So, learning self-regulation, which nobody taught us is one of the first steps, but this is close to my-- because on May 18th I'm teaching Firm class. 

 

Crystal The Parenting Coach: Right. 

 

Crystal The Parenting Coach: One way to find that is to notice; what's happening somatically for you? What is happening in your body when you're just about to set a limit around something? Do you feel yourself tensing up? Is there-- Is there butterflies? Is your stomach feel a little bit nauseous? Is there something in you that's saying, this isn't safe to set a boundary? 

And I think bringing attention to that and, kind of, loving on that part of you is going to be important because your body is like your number one tool in parenting. 

And so, to be firm when it's time to be firm requires a deeper voice, "Hey, I need you to sit down now, please"…versus "I need you to sit down". Right? So, it's grounded. It's a deep breath out. Sheila, nobody names her kid Sheila. "Sheila, come here now." 

And so, it's having both feet firmly on the ground, you're not multitasking. So, there's just a full presence to it. And God bless these moms today; they have so many things they're doing, they're trying to run a business out of their home while they're taking care of littles. And so, we're multitasking a lot. 

I think that bringing that firmness means you bring all of yourself to setting that limit, and you remind yourself that it's okay for someone to be upset by that limit; that is not your concern. You don't need to police or minimize the upset as long as you're being calm, kind, and firm and you believe in your boundary. 

And again, some people are like, 'I don't know what boundaries to set,' and check out my PDF for that. But does that answer your question?

 

Crystal The Parenting Coach: Oh, that totally answers my question. And it is so funny because literally just this morning I was talking to my 10-year-old and he's like, we're talking about how to speak to the dog. So, we have a dog nephew that we're living with right now.

 

Mary Van Geffen: Such a great analogy.

 

Crystal The Parenting Coach: Right? Such a great analogy. And he's like, 'He won't listen to me.'

So, my brother comes in the room and he's like, 'Let me show you a trick.' 

And he's like, 'If I talk like this,' and he did what you did – like talk really high…like, 'Okay, Finley, time to go or whatever.' He's like, 'He doesn't listen to me at all.' 

He's like, 'But watch this.' 

He stood in front of him, he put his feet on the ground and he deepened his voice, and he was like, 'Finley, time to go.' And he immediately-- He just went out. And he didn't say it meanly; it was just very firm and very confident…a confident body – an open, expansive body…a groundedness. 

And I think that, so often, we think that's mean because we're just like, we're used to people using that control, coercion, authoritarian parenting style along with this firm. And so, I think we equate it to that. But I think, like you said, if we can be calm and kind – and again, check back in with like, is this a boundary that is healthy that I want to keep, that I came to at a good place and I feel good about? 

And then, we can calm ourselves in our body and do exactly like that. Do it like you do with dogs, not the children or dogs. But I just feel like it's so--

 

Mary Van Geffen: Yeah. That's one of the odds that would happen today. 

 

Crystal The Parenting Coach: Yeah. 

 

Mary Van Geffen: The other thing is like, when you get a parent who's like, 'I'm ready for this kid to not sleep in my room anymore, tell me how to do it.' And I'm pro-family bed; I don't care how you sleep, but let's say you say that you want help having your kids stay in their room. 

Before I help anybody through that, I push on it a lot because, are you-- Are you really sure that you want to set this boundary? Because boundaries are not easy to set. Like, what are you willing to work through or take on or experience? Because it's very confusing for our children when we try and set a boundary, and we're like, when saying like, 'Okay, you can't come in here tonight, I'm serious.' But then we fold and we're so tired. 

 

Crystal The Parenting Coach: Yes.

 

Mary Van Geffen: So, yes, we have to know like, are we actually ready to set this boundary? Like maybe you're deciding you want to have a screen-free day, you have to do the work within yourself; it's not your kid's job to just go along with everything, you need to be okay with their upset. And that's going to mean, 'I'm committing to myself…I'm going to be in a place of integrity that no matter what, we're not going to do screens today.'

 

Crystal The Parenting Coach: Yeah. Because your kids are going to just be like, 'You know what? I'm so excited we're having a screen-free day.' 

We do screen resets all the time; and not one point are my kids like, 'I cannot wait, I'm so looking forward to this.' But I think that they notice the difference and they notice how it helps and supports them. And so, they are on board; I'm not forcing them to do something against their will. But it has to be very intentional for me; I have to decide because it's so easy like middle afternoon, I'm tired, I'm trying to get work done. And they come in and they're like, 'Well, can we just play this thing?' 

And I'm like, oh-- Then that-- Giving into that boundary is going to be super confusing for like, was this actually a boundary?

 

Mary Van Geffen: In the future, we'll like have a hologram of ourselves. It's like, "Remember, you are not letting them use screens today," because it's so hard to stay consistent and there's morning Mary, she's very different than afternoon Mary, who's used up all of her self-control. So, I just have compassion for everyone trying to keep a limit.

 

Crystal The Parenting Coach: Yeah, totally. And I think it doesn't matter what that limit is; it can be bedtime, it can be screens, it can be whatever. And I think everything we've talked about today really relates to all ages too. Like if you're listening to this, this is the same with teens, this is the same with tweens, this is the same with younger kids. 

I think just deciding like, is this the boundary I really want to have? Checking in with yourself, am I calm? Am I kind? And then firm and then lowering your voice. I love that you said lowering your voice; I haven't heard of that before, but it clearly worked on our dog this morning…so, try it with your kids. 

But I love this idea of that we can cultivate all three of these; we can do calm and kind and firm.

 

Mary Van Geffen: Yeah.

 

How to connect with Mary Van Geffen

Crystal The Parenting Coach: I think that's all I have for you today. I would love for people to join your workshop; it sounds awesome…and so does that PDF you talked about. So, I will make sure that we have links to those in the show notes. If you scroll down on whatever platform you're listening to, you'll see the show notes; and at the bottom of those notes, they'll have links to these. And you can also find Mary on Instagram. Is it Mary Van Geffen (@maryvangeffen) on Instagram?

 

Mary Van Geffen: Yes, ma'am.

 

Crystal The Parenting Coach: Okay. All right. So, on Instagram, is there anything else you want to mention or shout out before we--

 

Mary Van Geffen: I just want to say if you're listening to this, I'm really proud of you. There's not a lot of parents that take the time to listen to a parenting podcast; you're doing a great job. You're being thoughtful and self-reflective, and it is more than enough.

 

Crystal The Parenting Coach: I love that. Thank you. That's a such a perfect message to end on. And thank you for being here. We will see everyone next week.

 

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