S06|15 - Re-parenting with Joline, Mindful Mess MomMay 22, 2023
Joline Escat is the founder of mindfulmess mom and a conscious parent coach guiding Moms to go from Chaos to Calm& Confident. Through her studies in early childhood pedagogy with the focus on development and building resilience through a secure attachment, she helps parents understand the child in-front of them which leads to more empathy and less yelling.
In this episode you’ll hear:
- Joline’s personal story of teaching children and seeing their behaviour issues for more than just the behaviour on the outside
- Trauma, triggers and how to start the healing journey
- Using our triggers are teachers by creating more pause, visualizing the future and looking back on our past
Connect with Joline: @mindfulmess.mom
Coaching has changed my own life, and the lives of my clients. More connection, more healing, more harmony, and peace in our most important relationships. It increases confidence in any parenting challenges and helps you be the guide to teach your children the family values that are important to you- in clear ways. If you feel called to integrate this work in a deeper way and become a parenting expert, that’s what I’m here for.
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Crystal The Parenting Coach: Hi, I'm Crystal The Parenting Coach. Parenting is the thing that some of us just expected to know how to do. It's not like other areas of your life where you go to school and get taught, get on the job training, or have mentors to help you, but now you can get that help here.
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Welcome to the podcast today, Re-parenting with Joline, the Mindful Mess Mom.
Joline’s personal story of teaching children and seeing their behaviour issues for more than just the behaviour on the outside
Crystal The Parenting Coach: Joline Escat is the founder of Mindfulmess Mom and a Conscious Parenting coach guiding Moms to go from Chaos to Calm & Confident. Through her studies in Early Childhood Pedagogy with the focus on development and building resilience through a secure attachment, she helps parents understand the child in-front of them which leads to more empathy and less yelling.
Hello everyone and welcome to the podcast today. I am excited to bring you Jolene, the Mindfulmess Mom. Did I say that right?
Joline Escat: Yeah, Mindfulmess.
Crystal The Parenting Coach: Mindfulmess Mom from Instagram. We connected on Instagram, and I feel like what we teach and talk about is very similar and very aligned. And so, today, we're going to bring you a really amazing conversation around triggers.
I know that I talk about triggers a lot here because it is so integral to becoming a more conscious and connected parent, if that's the kind of parenting that you want to do. Triggers are like the equation, that's like how we do it. So, we are going to have a conversation around that.
Before we dig into that, do you want to just introduce yourself a little bit? And I would love to hear how you got into this work. Like kind of what pulled your soul to be like, 'This is for me.'
Joline Escat: Yes. I would love to thank you for having me. I started being a Conscious Parent Coach because I started working with kids, and it was just always the end of the chain. They were at home and then we saw them in kindergarten, how they reacted and behaved.
And it was always an underlying need that was met or something was going on at home, but we always get that short snippet of that child; and I was like, 'What's wrong with that child?'
And that's how we see it in the outside world a lot of times; what's wrong with that child? What's wrong with our child? And that's when I started becoming more aware of what's going…like, what's the big picture here?
And it always came back to the parents; and that's when I realized, 'Oh yeah, this is something I would love to work with.' And then, I became a parent; and then I was like, 'Now I understand when it comes down to the parents.'
And I learned about triggers, identifying the triggers. I understand my own childhood trauma – which before I got pregnant, I heard about it before and started working on it…but I didn't know how deep it is anchored in ourselves and how much our kids can bring those out.
So, I became my own, a parent myself; and I was like, 'Well, I'm going to parent my child differently than I was parented.' And that's how I started the whole shebang and I shared it on Instagram; and I started there, and it's been amazing ever since. I've worked with a lot of moms – especially wanting to do it differently, but don't know how and want to see their child for who they are.
Crystal The Parenting Coach: Yeah. I love that you noticed that even before you were a parent. I did not. I got-- I started having kids very young; and it was like all just like, 'Wait a second, I thought this was supposed to be easy and smooth…and what's happening here?'
But I love that you were able to be in an experience where you could see like, 'Okay, wait, there's something more going on.'
And I think we so often stigmatize our kids and we're like, well, no…they have a diagnosis or they need this, or they have a problem…or, it's them, them, them, because we're just focusing on them and their behaviors. It's so behavior-focused.
Like in schools and communities and churches, we're like, 'No, we want them to calm and be still and listen,' and whatever we feel like they should be…usually, so that life is easier for us. Right?
It'd be a lot easier to teach if they just were calm and quiet all the time, and always listen to me…and a lot easier to parent and a lot easier to do those things. But looking at that whole view and being like, 'Wait, it's so much more than just the end behavior that I'm seeing…and what else is going on here?
What trauma is, and how it affects parenting
Crystal The Parenting Coach: And I love that you were able to start digging into your own trauma journey also. And I also want to take a moment to just define trauma doesn't necessarily mean something like big, huge, crazy happened; trauma can-- Trauma is-- Dr. Becky at Good Inside described it as an event held in aloneness.
And so, I loved that description. I think it doesn't necessarily have to be the actual big event, but it's not feeling seen and heard and validated through those things that happened in our lives that were difficult for us.
Even if they seem small, looking back from our adult view being like, 'Well, that was little, that shouldn't have bothered me so much.' That can still-- That can still be trauma. And like you said, can just be stored in our body…and just kind of like be there and be stuck until we do the work around it.
Joline Escat: Yes. I always referred to that your needs weren't met in a way they were supposed to be met, and that's when it leaves you with like a scar, let's say a scar on your soul. And you know how older people are talking like, 'Oh, the weather is bad, I feel my scar' – this is what I referred as; when you get triggered, this is when you feel your scar.
And it's just a need that you are trying to get met, but you weren't able to get it met in that way. And I don't want to blame or shame our parents – but also, I was just thinking about it today as I read something; our parents tried the best they could at their capability at that certain time – but, I need to say a "But" here because I always used to say that, because we want to protect ourselves too.
So, when we are saying, "Our parents tried the best they could back then", "We have way more information now", "We can heal all that stuff", that's very true. We have way more information, and I believe 90% of us would've never heard about Conscious Parenting if it wouldn't be for social media.
But it depends on, how are you parents now – if you still have parents, because you'll forever be their child? And that relationship will never stop being a relationship unless you decide it to be.
So, the question is; your parents might have been ill-equipped back then, but are they now still?
And this is a big part of the healing because, at first, you become aware. And then you go through pain because you are aware of you deserve maybe something different then, you grieve – and from that grief you go into empowerment, you become confident in yourself and then you decide if you forgive or not. So, it's all about you and on you; and it was never on us. We never had a say in anything.
So, now, it's in our corner. So, our parents now have the equipment to change – if they're still treating you the exact same way as they did when you were a child, it's an excuse.
And if we're going to start saying like, "But now they're older and they've always done it like that," how we like to say it just to make it make sense for us so we feel better about ourselves, we're still diminishing our own trauma.
And this is the part of the healing that is sometimes so tough because we never realized who we truly are. And with our kids triggering us, we can't find out who we truly are and become and create ourselves. It's not about finding ourselves; it's really about creating ourselves. But it's tough with the healing and seeing our parents for who they are now because it's painful.
Crystal The Parenting Coach: I think that inner-- I heard somebody explain Inner Child Healing really well one time; and they said, "It's the wounds that come from not having our needs met all the time". But they also said, "Our needs can't possibly be met all the time". Right?
Like there's no perfect human that could be like, 'Okay, I know exactly how to meet this person's needs all the time.' So, I think knowing like, we are going to pass down some of that wounding because we're human.
Joline Escat: Oh yeah.
Crystal The Parenting Coach: And also knowing sometimes we might be in a situation where our parents understand that and are doing their own journey and on their own healing path with us, but sometimes they're not.
And I would guess, oftentimes, they're probably not; and that we can still do all of this work on our own and all of this healing-- I like to call it self-mothering, like becoming our own mother, and healing that even if--
If you're listening to this and you're like, 'Well, my parents aren't on board and we haven't like healed our relationship,' it's okay. We can still get there, and we can still do the healing necessary. And yeah, I do think there's like part of like, they did their best with the information that they had, and also like, we have more information now, so now let's move forward.
Joline Escat: Yes, exactly. We have more information now and we are willing to do the work – but it's okay if they're not on board, but that's also the reason why it feels so lonely.
It feels so lonely because we want to be accepted and we want maybe our parents to be proud; and then we see how other people do it, and it's just so much information – maybe even too much that we're feel like we're still failing even though we're trying.
And I always say, "All we can do is try over and over and over again because the first step when you do become aware, you can't return from that."
A lot of parents, young parents, are still in the Unconscious Parenting. They're really just going by default because they have not become aware yet or maybe they don't want to, because it is hard. It would be way easier to use fear and scarcity to raise our kids, and give into every trigger that we have to control our child than actually re-parenting ourselves in those moments – pausing, choosing how we respond rather than react. That is way harder, and it's exhausting.
Crystal The Parenting Coach: Way harder. It's like emotionally tiring. It's not necessarily-- I mean, sometimes it's physically too – but, for the most part, it's like such emotional work to do.
Joline Escat: So emotional. It's also the grieving part. And it's sad when you are, you know, going through your child when they're hurt; and you're like, 'Oh man, that hurts, are you okay?'
Or when your child lies at you and you're just getting curious of why they're lying instead of being punished for being lied to, it's the harder way because you are going against your entire being. Your entire being screams, "You need to do it differently…they need a spanking, they need a yelling, a screaming, a punishing," because that's all you know.
If you have always been that way or have been reacted to that way, that is your normal.
But on the other hand, you are in the middle of going and creating your true self, the person you want to be. And so, you're stuck in the middle going back-and-forth; and you're like, 'I'm so lost, can someone just hold my hand and tell me what to do?'
Especially when you are always told what you were supposed to do as a child, you're so-- I'm confident that becoming conscious and believing in yourself, trusting yourself gives you the confident of, no one can rock your boat. You'll just stand up for yourself and your child. And it takes time. It's not like it's going to happen overnight just because you make a decision to do that.
Crystal The Parenting Coach: Yeah. And I think it also takes different healing modalities. Like in some points in my life, maybe I needed meditation, maybe I needed therapy, maybe different times I needed EMDR or EFT or whatever, but maybe I needed coaching also.
And so, I think if you're listening to this and you're like, 'Yeah, that's where I'm feeling I'm at,' I would just like take a minute to like listen in to you and be like, 'What do I think would be most supportive for me in guiding me on this journey?'
Because sometimes, we're in the like, 'Right now, I'm just going to do some podcasts and books.' But other times, we're like, 'I'm going to be a little bit more proactive, and I'm going to find someone that can help support me on this journey also.'
Joline Escat: Yeah. Because you're never alone.
Crystal The Parenting Coach: Yeah. Yeah, because it does-- It does feel-- It feels like an alone journey, especially if people in your sphere are still parenting in the more unconscious way. Like the more-- I want to say like just reactive, kind of just reactive, as in, when things happen, I just naturally react to them and I don't necessarily think about it before I react.
And I think that it can feel like really against the grain to be like out in public all the time and being like, wait-- everybody's kind of looking at me because they're like, wait, shouldn't you be yelling at your kids? Shouldn't you be forcing them to stop, and you're not?
Triggers, and how to start the healing journey
Crystal The Parenting Coach: And so, it can feel a little bit tricky when you're out in public, but I want to talk a little bit about triggers. Tell us more about how you kind of view triggers, how you describe them and how you help people work through those.
Joline Escat: Triggers are different types of like triggers, really getting triggered by it. It could be like; an emotion, a sound, a situation, a place. And it's not only negative. Like your unconscious gets triggered by something that you've experienced maybe before.
But when we talk about triggers in the parenting space and the healing part of us – most of the time, we're talking about the reactive triggers that puts into us into survival mode…where we either have to fight, flight, freeze, or fawn-respond to a situation that we are faced with our child most of the time.
And I actually don't like to see triggers as something negative, necessarily, because it's a gate for yourself. And this is something where you can focus on where you need to do more healing, or maybe there's an unmet need that you've got to focus on more and your triggers will not go away because it's really something that is unconscious like this in a second. And you can turn down the volume on them, though.
Let's say when you start the Conscious Parenting journey and you realize that whenever your child is not listening to you, that you are at a 42 of volume and you go reactive right into it.
But as soon as you become aware, that's the first step; that this is something that triggers you, you already turned down the volume like three – you know, three steps. And then you go from there and maybe next time, you prepare yourself for a situation like this.
You literally visualize yourself, 'Okay, I'm going to tell my child now to do…we got to go-- We got to leave. And I know he's going to say no and he's going to refuse this, and he's not listening to what I say…how will I respond instead of react?'
And you visualize yourself so you are aware and you are working towards who you want to be in that situation, you are creating yourself. And it might not happen at the beginning. You might try and you go down on their level or you talk with a calm voice, look in their eyes; and then maybe they slap you in the face.
Crystal The Parenting Coach: Yep.
Joline Escat: That's a big deal, and that's when you lose it – but you try. And a lot of times parents are like, 'I tried…you know what? It's not working with my child. I'm just--'
Crystal The Parenting Coach: Yeah, 'This kind of parenting does not work with my kids,' I hear that all the time.
'Oh, I tried that kind of parenting, it didn't work with my kids,' it works with your kids, promise. Does not matter their diagnosis. Doesn't matter who they are or what they're like, it will work with every single kid. But it's a lot. Working doesn't necessarily mean what we think it means; it doesn't mean like that they're going to then choose to listen to you, and come calmly and quietly.
For me, working means like; what is it going to look like as an adult? Like what are their behaviors, their patterns, their attachment, their emotional intelligence? What's that going to be like as an adult? And like, that's my focus – not like getting them into the car in their seat buckled in the next five minutes.
Joline Escat: Yes. That's the thing. We have a hard time seeing the outlook later on; we want the result right now. And if we're living in the state of controlling because we feel like we need to control to feel safe, we want to control the situation and in the end of our child.
So, when your child did slap you in the face, you are allowed to leave. Like, I tell parents all the time, leave the situation. It's better to scream into a pillow than to scream at your child.
Crystal The Parenting Coach: Yeah.
Joline Escat: But my child's following me or my child starts crying. It's still better to leave the situation, regulate yourself first before you go and try to co-regulate your child when you're so dysregulated because you can't do that at the same time. So, we feel--
Crystal The Parenting Coach: Totally. And when people are like, 'Oh, but it's unsafe, it's unsafe,' I'm like, is it really? Like, do you leave them when you go to the bathroom? Like, do you leave them-- You don't have to be gone for an hour to regulate yourself.
Joline Escat: No.
Using our triggers as teachers by creating more pause, visualizing the future and looking back on our past
Crystal The Parenting Coach: Like, that's not what we're talking about. Right? But it's actually going to do less harm if you leave them on their own and you do something quiet, like you probably have one room that has like a lock on the door or something.
Like sometimes when I'm like regulating myself in my closet, my kids are still like banging on the outside of the wall; and I'm just like focusing inwards and trying to be as calm as I can or get myself to a place of calm when I'm not feeling that way.
And I think that's better time spent than like-- I think it's creating-- It's like that quote about "creating pause between stimulus and reaction". Right? And whatever we can do to increase that pause.
Joline Escat: Yeah. And a lot of times when we have younger kids and they cry when you walk away because they're sad because they know they hurt you and now you're neglecting them. You don't neglect your child if you can give them in two seconds, like, 'I will be right back,' and then you leave…instead of just stomping away mad and just they feel the energy.
Crystal The Parenting Coach: Right.
Joline Escat: You're like, I'll be right back. And then, you go; let cold water run over your wrists, you take a couple of deep breaths, you punch a pillow, you scream into a pillow, you say all the F* words that come into your mind into a pillow. That does not make you a bad parent if this is a thing you actually want to say to your child in that moment. It doesn't make you--
Crystal The Parenting Coach: And you can tell them-- You can set them up for that too, right? You can be like, "I know that this is what my body needs right now… my body needs a break right now…I know you really want me right now I'll be right back, I'm still in the house, I still love you."
Like whatever you want to say in that moment, that's like just short and, kind of, to the point. And then, all the examples you just gave are so good because a lot of those go with like the vagus nerve. Right?
And so, the vagus nerve is going to be the thing that's going to be able to help calm us down. So, I love the, putting cold water over your wrist. What other things do you do in that moment? Like when you're personally feeling triggered, what does that look like for you?
Joline Escat: It gets easier, over time, as we talked before about it. The volume just goes-- it goes really, really quiet at one point when you understand yourself more and more because you'll be able to meet your needs throughout the day. So, you'll understand like, 'Oh, I need a break right now because if I just continued going, I will have my cup overflowing and then there's no turning back.'
So, turning down the volume, over time, over and over and over again is something that will help you become the more calm parent and confident parent. What I do more now is ask for help. I felt like if I asked for help, I'm failing because I need to do that; I decided to become a parent and I need to be on the entire time.
Crystal The Parenting Coach: Yes. Like I can be the somehow robot person that doesn't need anybody else or any support.
Joline Escat: Yeah. Yeah, because we're also so afraid of judgment. If we say like, 'Ah man, do you-- do you think you have time to go to the park with them for two hours? I really just want to lay on the couch.' Because that is something we're like, but then we're lazy and, I'm a parent and my partner's home now, now we need to spend time together because we're a family.
Like we have so many voices in our head that tell us the exact thing that we need to be doing to be good enough; and then we do them, and then we end up yelling at our kids because we were so overwhelmed by everything.
Crystal The Parenting Coach: Because we were listening to our own needs, right? We're like, 'No, we need to do it in the way the world tells you to do it because that's how it should be done.' Instead of like, 'Wait a second, am I actually listening to my own inner voice?'
Joline Escat: Yeah. So, my triggers is a lot of times breathing and also making a noise by breathing.
Crystal The Parenting Coach: Yeah.
Joline Escat: And it's so weird because I thought, 'This is so cringe, what if someone would hear me?' My child knows that I'm dysregulated when I make a sound like this without him being scared of me.
Crystal The Parenting Coach: Yeah.
Joline Escat: You know, our kids will notice, 'Oh, okay, my mom is tense right now, she's maybe frustrated.' But I'm not letting it out on him. And every time I do this, my child calms down with me because he knows like, 'Okay, something's going on right now and we're breathing.'
'We're breathing?' But this is what he tells me now. And he is going to be three in August, so he's very young.
He's like, 'Mama, breathing?'
And I'm like, 'Breathing, loud breathing.'
And this is something that I do now. But when I started my trigger journey; I needed to scream, I needed to dance, I needed to move because all those bottled-up feelings were overflowing all the time. And I needed physical movement or releasing that energy to not resist against my child – or bottle them up even more just for my partner to come home at the end of the day and releasing it onto him.
Crystal The Parenting Coach: Yeah.
Joline Escat: So, it's a constant; check in, release…check in, release. Even if you're at a six, go do something that releases from a six to a four. I always talk about a stress cup. 1 is super chill, and 10 is about to lose or losing it; and you can release it throughout the day. So, it's really becoming aware of your triggers, becoming aware of your own self; and work against your trigger moment reactiveness, that's all I have to call it. It's a long thing.
Crystal The Parenting Coach: Yes. I want to point out a couple things you said. because I think it's really important; when you start this work, it's probably going to be loud and messy. It, for sure, was for me.
I was just like, 'What do you mean breathe? Like that's not going to help. I'm feeling all this like intense feelings inside.'
For sure, it was more of the like yelling or jumping or shaking or dancing or listening to loud music or whatever. Like I would listen to you and just take a minute and be like, what does it feel like my body might need right now? Because your body has so much wisdom.
And ask your body what you feel like it needs, and then just do that no matter how weird it sounds. Don't like think about like, what if somebody hears me if I yell or sigh out loud? Right? Like, just do what your body needs in that moment.
And I always feel like I have this closet that I meditate in. So, sometimes I'll be doing my deep breathing and like the loud sighing or be loud yelling; and I'm like, 'I'm sure that everyone in the house can hear me right now.'
But they're probably like, what is happening?
But I'm like, I just know that that's what my body needs right now.
And for me too, we were talking before we started 'press record' on this episode, in that my triggers feel less intense and they also feel less frequent. Like it's almost like you've mentioned like that noise, that volume has just turned a little bit down…and now, almost all of the time, breathing does work for me. I do meditate in the morning pretty much every single morning and I notice that that really helps my nervous system, even if I only do it for like a minute.
But, in general, my nervous system is just a little bit less triggered and just a little bit more calm. And I presume that that will just keep happening over the years as I keep, you know, keep going on this journey.
And I think another interesting thing to think about with triggers is like once it's passed, once that intensity's passed – like you said, how do I visualize it in the future? And I also like to add one step to that in going back to like, what do I think was triggering about this? Because that can like uncover some answers too about like; what do I feel like this trigger even was? Where did that come from?
And that can kind of give us some insight. And I think any level of awareness we can gain either looking back or looking forward – or pausing in that moment and just becoming aware – like you said, is going to just turn down the volume a little bit on that trigger.
Joline Escat: Yeah. I teach a course with my friend Maggie Nick, Parenting With Perspectacles. 'Perspectacles', I cannot say the word Perspectacles.
Crystal The Parenting Coach: Oh, Parenting With Perspectacles? Yes. Yes. Totally. Okay.
Joline Escat: We teach in that course about the resist release and then re-parenting. So, the resist is the trigger where it's that feeling of like, 'Oh I need to resist the behavior, I need to resist my child, and then I need to find a moment to release.'
So, we go into the different room, we breathe whatever it is at the moment that works for us. And like you said, over time, breathing will work. And then, you regulate because of the release. And then, what you just mentioned is the reparenting part; you go back to why was I triggered by this?
And if we go back to the disobedience we talked about earlier, you can check in with yourself and ask; when I did not listen to my parents, what happened?
Oh, I got punished or I got sent away and the love was taken away from me because I didn't do as I was told. And now, I feel like I'm superior and in power and control of my child; and I want to get that need met by my child.
So, instead of doing that, you can meet that need for yourself; you can do that now…understanding that if I resisted something that my parents wanted for me, that I was allowed to do this – I was allowed to say no.
And that will help you eventually be so confident in yourself that you will say no to things you don't want to do. Because I don't know if you are honest, but if I'm honest, there was a lot of times I just said yes because I wanted to be liked, I wanted to be loved – and if I did not say yes, I was not as good as I could be if I do say yes. So, it's--
Crystal The Parenting Coach: Yeah, a trigger is always connected to something deeper.
Joline Escat: Always.
Crystal The Parenting Coach: It's never just like this like, 'But they're not listening to me or they're disrespecting me.' There's always something underneath it. And I think that looking backwards aspect, once we're already calm and it's been a little bit of time, where we can look back with our logical brain, and be like, 'Well, what bothered me so much about this?'
There's usually some sort of subconscious belief that we're still carrying with us that we're responding to. Even if we logically are like, 'Oh, but I know it's okay to not say yes all the time or whatever,' that our body still is going to respond as if we still have that belief. And bringing more light and more awareness to that every single time that it happens is going to help lower the volume on those triggers.
Joline Escat: Exactly, yes. It's a journey. It's a big process, and it's worth it in the end. And if you feel like it's not working for you, a big part is to understand that kids are kids still; they're not small grownups, they will behave in a way we do not understand.
Crystal The Parenting Coach: So many times.
Joline Escat: Not anymore. We used to understand it because we just lived in the moment when we were children ourselves. And now it's hard for us to live in the moment and just be, and kids do that.
So, a lot of times, try to watch your child how they do not care at all what AMSU says or the lady at Target, "Can you give a smile and you get a sticker?"
And they're just like, "No."
And we're about to lose it because it's like, "But you got to be kind, you got to be nice." It's, kids don't care like that.
Crystal The Parenting Coach: I think it's really helped open my mind up to like, why do I even have the societal norm that I think it should be this way? And really opened up my mind to really choosing my own path too; like helping me say like, "What do I want to say yes to? What do I want to say no to? How do I want to be?" Instead of like these roles that society has kind of given me.
Joline Escat: Yeah.
Crystal The Parenting Coach: And I think it's been a huge blessing. I always say, triggers are teachers. It's like a reflection. It's like a mirror of like what's happening; and I can either just kind of ignore it and keep being triggered – or I can use this to learn and to grow…and to, eventually, just lower the volume just a little bit, the intensity and the frequency of those triggers.
So, thank you so much. Thank you for being on. Thank you for sharing all of this. It's been so wonderful. And I love talking to people that are doing this work also, and that are like there and helping and healing and guiding and all of the things because we all need it. There's a lot of people out there.
Joline Escat: Thank you. No, it was so much fun. I love to talk to people like you as well – coaches, people that are just aware, becoming aware – because it's so connecting. We feel so lonely a lot of times, but we're all in the same space and looking beyond and just supporting each other I think is the best thing we can do to empower our own selves.
How to connect with Joline Escat
Crystal The Parenting Coach: Totally, totally. Thank you so much for all of that. If people want to connect with you, do you want to-- I'll have all these links shared below too, but do you want to just say it kind of verbally so people can hear where they can see you?
Joline Escat: Yes, you can find me on Instagram, @mindfulmess.mom. I also have a website, www.mindfulmess-mom.com. And you can always message me; I always love to connect with anyone and have a lot of webinars going on little things like setting boundaries and stuff that we struggle with on the daily. And I love those because they're live group coachings; it's just like a bunch of moms talking about all the things. So, come join us there.
Crystal The Parenting Coach: Oh, I love that. I love that. Thank you so much, and thank you for your time today.
Joline Escat: Thank you.
Crystal The Parenting Coach: Thanks for listening. If you'd like to help spread this work to the world, share this episode on social media and tag me – send it to a friend, or leave a quick rating and review below so more people can find me. If you'd like more guidance on your own parenting journey, reach out.